Shooters Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I purchased a 'used' Winchester Model 70 Stainless Steel 'Classic Sporter' contour Barrel in .300 Winchester Magnum Caliber on Ebay. It is 25-7/8 inch long and has the Model 70 Threaded Tenon.

I am thinking of cutting it down and chambering it in one of the .32 RF/CF size cartridges, perhaps the .32 Extra Long, either RF or CF, or the .32 Long.
I believe that the nominal .300 bore and .308 Groove diameters will work with these cartridges as two Stevens Original barrels I own slug .298" Bore and .303" or .304" Grooves for a marked .32 Long cartridge which used a .311" to .316" Lead bullet.

Feb. 3, 2014 Edit ADD: Slugged the barrel this AM and it measures .299" bore/.310" Groove using a .315 round ball and a Dial Caliper.. Chev. William

The action choices so far are:
1894 Stevens Favorite upgraded with higher strength screws and pins.
1915 Stevens Favorite with oversized and high strength Breech Block, Screws and Pins.
Stevens "Model 44" action based upon a used stripped receiver (another Ebay Purchase). Possible, subject to inspection after receipt.

What do the members think of this project?
Any Low Cost Actions suggestions?
Alternative Cartridge for this Bore/Groove/Twist?

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Update on the first post:
I now have a Stevens Model 44 Receiver that needs all the internals but does add to the action selections for that Winchester barrel. It may be a 'race' between chamber length and barrel taper that determines whether the 44 can be used, which will also be influenced by the 300WM neck diameter and the chamber cut clearances. After all , I am looking to make it into a .318 body diameter .32 chamber.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Funny how lead will squish down. FWIW, get yourself a micrometer. Dial calipers are notoriously inaccurate. GW
I do have access to micrometers, with a range from 0 to 3" but they all have round 'anvils' to take the measurements.
My Dial Caliper is measuring within +/- .001" and has thin blade tips to allow reading the 'bore' diameter of of a 'Slug' without too much error.

Thank you for the comment and suggestion.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My "new old stock" Stevens 44 Center Fire Breech block, my order of "44" pins and screws from Muzzleloader Builders Supply, arrived and I am happy to report some of the items fit as received, others are slightly larger than the holes they should go through but are within 'reaming' range to fit tightly for little lost motion in the action.
- The Breech Block Pivot Pin and Pivot Screw fit the receiver holes tightly but are about .002 big for the Breech Block hole.
- The Lever Pivot, same as BB Pivot, is slightly large for both the Receiver holes and the Lever I have.
- The Hammer Pivot Screw fits the Receiver hole tightly, but I do not have a hammer yet to try.
- The Trigger Pivot Screw does not fit the Receiver holes.
- The firing pin retainer is very tight in the Breech Block and also the threads for it, so fitting may be needed later.
- The Breech Block seems to fit my receiver well, side to side, and front to rear but the up and down will need to wait until I can work the Pivot Pin through both the Breech Block and receiver holes simultaneously.

As to my two 1894 Actions, more delay as my Gunsmith's wife went into the Hospital Thursday. I do not know the cause nor the results.
I believe other things are set aside in times of personal worry, and I agree with that.

My 1915 action is on hold for the moment, waiting upon Pacific Tool and Gauge to complete my .250ALRM Roughing Chamber Reamer, to go with the Finish Chamber Reamer they did last year. I am not using the Finish Reamer until I can rough the chamber first, I do not want to dull or chip the Finish Reamer in a raw bore.

I received the order of Swiss Black Powder from Buffalo Arms with one 'little' problem, they 'substituted' 1fg for the 2fg I ordered.
I have already talked with Buffalo Arms and we came to a understanding on what will happen, so I am satisfied.
This means I now have Swiss in 1fg, 3fg, 4fg, and Null-B to experiment with along with my previous stock of GOEX 3fg and Pryodex "CTG".
I also have several types of modern Smokeless Powders I have used or planned to experiment with so I am now well positioned to do the necessary powder loadings for my .25 calibers and my .32 Calibers.

I have a supply of .312" to .315" 90 grain heeled bullets in two designs, and a supply of .255" 51 grain Lead bullets along with some .25" Jacketed bullets. The experimental loadings will be made up when the weather here drys out and gets warmer as it is done on my back patio which faces to the North, not the Warmest nor calmest at the moment.

I did buy a second 1915 Receiver, but it appears to have been 'Bubba' Repaired in the past, further inspections will wait until after the 18th when I can pick it up from my FFL dealer due to California Regulations. This one does NOT have a visible serial number nor other markings, has partially cleaned up weld at the body to lower tang joint cleaned up Braze at the body to upper tang joint, and a heavy boss at the end of the lower tang with a screw fitted between the two tangs, which are close to the same length as I remember it from when I saw it during filling out the transfer paperwork.
For $45 plus $5 shipping and $89+ for the transfer, it was inexpensive; but may be unusable as is for a firing arm. Wall hanger maybe?

Now Back to the 'mundane', getting ready for Tax Preparation, replacing shredded shelter canvas, Getting my dogs to Vet for annual checkup then getting their licenses renewed for the year. keeping ahead of the mushrooms popping up in my back lawn, etc., etc.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Another Stevens '44' partially stripped action arrived at my gunsmith's shop to have the Transfer paperwork, that California and the Feds Require, done and then sit until the Waiting period runs out.
It is missing the Breech Block Assembly but has the Lever, Link, Trigger, and Hammer with it.
The Pivot pins and screws have all been 'Bubba'd" in that the slots are all chewed up and the two pivot screws are frozen tight in the receiver while the two Pivot pins did come out with some light persuasion.
Overall, the Receiver and parts are a dark brown 'rust' with pitting evident on some areas, also the Receiver Bridge has a 'sighting notch' cut into it. I do not know how much that notch will weaken the bridge.
I bought it because it has a hammer and trigger with it to be used as models and for measurements to make up parts locally.
The Lever and link are now soaking in "Enviro-Rust" to remove the rust as much as possible gently without destroying any remaining finish under the 'crud'. My intent is to get them cleaned up enough to inspect and measure as possible useful parts and as drawing models.
I am hoping this is the last one I will need to buy for the moment.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Today was spent selecting and fitting pivot screws and pins to a couple of my Receivers.

A "Bubba'd" 1894 Favorite got four pivot screws fitted temporarily to it.
The Breech Block Pivot Screw is threaded to far onto the shank as the threads would be fully in one "ear' of the Breech Block, reducing the support for it.
The Lever Pivot Screw has the correct thread amount (about one thread) showing inside the Receiver so the Lever would receive maximum support of thread free screw body, or Grip.
The Hammer Pivot Screw both threaded to far and too long for the receiver width, showing about four threads inside and one thread outside.
The Trigger Pivot Screw is similar to the Hammer one in length and threads showing inside and outside.
Now I need to go through my internal parts to see if anything would fit this receiver.
I will eventually need to get some new screws with longer Grip and shorter threaded section to properly support he various internal parts.

The other one is a Model 44 receiver that Was in dire need to new pivot pins and Screws also.
The Breech Block is a NOS one I bought of Ebay and I used an adjustable reamer to ease its pivot hole out to very closely fit a new pivot pin I got from "Muzzleloader Builders Supply" along with several other pivot parts.
The Lever Pivot pin did not go in the Receiver holes until they were also reamed out. but just went into the Lever pivot hole.
The Hammer Pivot Screw head would not go into the Receiver counter bore so I 'dressed' it down until it would properly fit.
The Trigger Pivot Screw actually fit as received except for being half a thread too long.
My Breech Block is actually too long to close in this Receiver, so I will need to 'dress' its rear face down to make it an exact fit in the BB Slot against the rear shoulders.
I will need to make or find a firing pin to fit but I have a used Firing Pin Retainer Screw that does fit the BB.
Hammer and Trigger are still in limbo, do I use the ones I bought form "Numerich" as is or first use them as patterns to get more made? Or do I hold out for "Safety Hammer" to copy?

All in all it was an interesting day.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I have been gathering parts and pieces for several Stevens rifle projects, 1894 and 1915 Favorites and now Model 44 project(s).

The '44' project started with the purchase of a Stevens sued Model 44 receiver that had been used and stripped. then purchases of some internals, culminating in the purchase of a NOS CF Breech Block that had not been fitted to an action. Later I was lucky enough to buy some 'last one' internals from Numerich, including a Hammer, Trigger, and a Firing Pin Retainer screw, which happened to fit the Breech Block. I also bought a set of Pins and Screws from "MuzzleLoader Builders Supply" and a Lever from "Jack first and some Extractors from "Wisner's". Then two more "Bubba'd" receivers were bid and purchased on Ebay, one of which had some internals still in, or with, it due to damaged screws and pins. So now I have all but the springs and such to put together a Stevens Model 44 in .32 "Colt" or similar diameter cartridges, in a Takeoff Winchester 700 Barrel originally chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

here is a photo of my receiver after it had been mostly cleaned up (along with the mocked up 1915 rifle);


Then I bought a Stock for the receiver that came up on Ebay, it came in the mails Saturday and Sunday I scraped it to fit my receiver. The top tang is hard against the rear of the top cut while the bottom tang is about 0.11" short of the rear of the bottom cut with both tang screws tight in their exiting holes.

Here are photos of the stock as received:



And here are photos of my 1915 Favorite receiver partially fitted to the Stock:


Then here are photos of my Model '44' receiver partially fitted to the Stock:



I have used a new Breech Block Pivot pin and reamed the BB pivot hole(s) to fit it, at 0.293" diameter, using an adjustable reamer (size 7/A) slowly increased in size until the pin just went through. the Receiver Holes did not need the reamer but fit the pin slightly tighter.
The BB will need further fitting as it's rear face is an interference fit to the receiver rear 'shoulders' so it will not rise into 'battery' yet.
The lever fit its pin well but the receiver needed reaming to allow the pin to fit tightly, at 0.292" diameter.
I have not yet selected a link so the link pivots will have to wait.
The Hammer pivot screw head did not fit the receiver counter bore until I 'dressed' the head down in diameter.
The Trigger pivot screw fit its position nicely as received.

I now need to finish documenting the hammer and trigger dimensions and angles to allow future reproductions.
And now with two exemplars of the Hammer I think I can get the measurements to do the drawing.

If I can get the Trigger out of the last Receiver in spite of its stuck pivot screw, with a shattered head, I will have two exemplars of the Trigger to measure for Drawings.

The drawing of the Breech Block is about half finished and I now can measure my one BB to complete that drawing.
Hopefully I will also be able to figure out how much to remove to allow the BB to rise up into Battery position while still bearing on the Receiver rear shoulders for added support against firing pressure reactions.

I will also need to obtain or make a firing Pin to fit.

The Tentative Barrel is a Stainless steel 'take off' Winchester model 700, used one, that presently is chambered in .300 Win. Mag.; so will need to be shortened to allow cutting the new chamber for .32 cases of 0.318" diameter, which length is still to be determined. Obviously the Barrel Tenon will be machined to fit the 44 receiver barrel socket, Luckily I have a copy Frank de Haas' Book with the Tenon dimensions mostly listed, and measurements of my receiver should yield the missing ones.
This barrel was never cut (dove tail slots nor screw holes) for 'iron' sights so I do not need to worry about indexing yet. Perhaps setting it up with a tube sleeve, or Shroud, to allow 'floating' it nearly full length is an option?

I may need to leave the barrel locking hole and the extractor cut to a professional gunsmith as I do not have ready access to a mill.

Finishing this receiver will be a decision to be made at a later date.

The Stock has a finish on it that is good for the moment, as it is purported to be a "Paul Shuttleworth" Stock (CPA Rifles) originally fitted to a Model 44-1/2 Receiver.

So that is the outline of my '44' in .32 Project.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Further on the Cartridge selection process:
I received an order of sample 25-20 SS basic Cases from Buffalo Arms and they measure as follows;
Body diameter = .315" at base and .312" near the mouth.
Rim diameter = .375".
Rim thickness = .048".
Mouth inside diameter = .295".
Derived Neck thickness = .0085".
Primer pocket diameter = .175".
Primer pocket depth = .127".
Case length = 1.799".
Inside case length (mouth to web) = 1.538".

I believe these will make good parent cases for .32 Extra Long (both RF and CF) cases by trimming the length and turning the rim diameter down to fit.

This now gives several parent case candidates for .32 "Colt" family cases:
.32 S&W Short with heavy resizing to yield .32 Extra Short and .32 Short RF adapter cases.
.32 S&W Long with heavy resizing to yield .32 Long RF and Cf cases of various lengths to fit different heeled bullets and rifle chamber lengths.
.327 Federal With heavy resizing to yield .32 Extra Long Rf adapter cases.
.25-20 SS basic cases with Trimming and rim turning to yield .32 Extra long CF or .32 Extra Long RF adapter cases.

Now we have potential sources for the cases to make all these chamberings in Rifles, and pistols for that matter, "speak' again.

Only ready available bullets remain a problem for the shortest ones and for the Longest one, except we could use the 87-92 grain sizes in all of them with some differences from original loads and ballistics.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
A photo of my Stevens '44' mocked up rifle using a Stevens '44' chambered '22-LR' barrel.
Above the rifle is the Proposed Stainless Steel used 'takeoff' Win. 700 Barrel in .300 Win. Mag.;
I figure after cutting the existing chamber off and turning a Stevens '44' Tenon on it, then chamber it for one of the '.32 "Colt" family' of cartridges, it will end up about 22-1/4" long muzzle to Breech Face.



Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Monday I was able to use my Friend's Lathe for several hours and I used the time to cut off the .300 Win. Mag. chamber; then turn a 'customized' Stevens 44 Tenon on the remainder. The 'customization' was to fit the two locating diameters to my Receiver, which seems ot need locating bosses larger than Frank de Haas' book states.

Here is a Photo of a Stevens '22-LR' Barrel, the Winchester Barrel with the Stevens 44 Tenon and my Receiver.


Here is a closeup of the Tenons and receiver.


And here is a photo with the Winchester Barrel threaded into my Stevens 44 Receiver.


Currently the Barrel measures about 23" from Muzzle to Breech face but that may change when it is Head spaced and the chamber is cut.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I now have the area just forward of the Tenon turned and Threaded to accept a .80" I.D./.90" O.D. Aluminum Alloy tube for a Shroud to Free Float most of the Barrel's length when installed on the rifle.

The Shroud is intended to allow support of the forward weight o fhte rifle without putting pressure on the Barrel itself in 'Bench Rest' and 'Off Hand' shooting. I am hoping this will allow maximum inherent accuracy in the Rifle, so I can practice my own holds without excessive dispersion from varying pressure point and direction of force from hold.

Next is to get the Shroud Tube threaded to fit.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Internal threading of the aluminum Shroud tube is not going well, so I bought a section of aircraft quality seamless 4130 Alloy Steel tubing to make the Shroud from but do not have the needed threading tools for steel.

In the interim I have trimmed some .32 Long Colt CF cases to .398", the length of a .32 Extra Short case.
I had to shorten the Lyman Universal Case Trimmer pilot as the original .250" nose length was bottoming on the case internal Web at a trim length of about .408". After the length of the pilot was reduced to .200" the cases are now trimming to .398" +/-.001" with the first one ending at .395".

It looks like the internal case wall taper will need to be reamed out to clear my bullet heel length to allow seating.

I will also need to work up a Seating die and a separate Crimp die similar to the one I bought to crimp Long Colt and Short Colt cases loaded with Heeled bullets.

These Extra Short Cases are interesting as QL Calculates the are still capable of 600fps to 700fps out of a 24" barreled rifle using a 90 grain bullet and up to .90 grains (calculated maximum pressure load) of Titegroup powder.

Sound lie a Quiet Short Range Target, Varmint, and plinking cartridge.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Today, I called and talked to Paul at CPA Rifles about a Trigger replacement for my '44' action, sadly he had none. But he did suggest a method to repair the trigger I do have and I also ordered a Forearm for my '44' barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Today I received an EBAY purchase of a Used Original Stevens '44' Trigger and it fits my Action parts without modifications. now my Hammer sits the proper distance form the Back fo the Breech Block when The Hammer is in the "Half Cock" position adn still is caught in "Ful cock".
I will keep the weld modified 'too short' one as a Spare.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Projects updated progress report:

About time to go through and update my 'progress report':

"modified Stevens 1915 Action": This action was modified by a previous owner to take a .600" wide Breech Block, which is about .050" to .070" wider than normal. I have it back in my possession after my gunsmith hardened and tempered the firing pin and fitted four 1894 pattern extractors to fit four cartridges; .22LR, .25ACP, .25 Stevens, and .32 Long/.32 Long Colt. These also have a larger than normal pivot clearance hole so will not fit a normal 1915 Action. I now need to plan a Trip to the Range to test fire this rifle. Still have not been to the Range Yet, Season of Rain, cold, Holidays, and TAXES take more out of me than I like(20150114).

"Used, stripped 1915 Receiver": I purchased this receiver through an auction for $60.00 along with a 1894 type stripped Receiver for another $60.00 then added the California DROS/Transfer and Dealer handling fees to that. This 1915 actin is now fitted out with enough parts to make it a functional Action, but will go to my gunsmith for inspection and 'Tuning'. This Action will need thinking as to how to 'finish' it as there are there are numerous lengthwise 'scrapes' on both sides and some residual "Color Case" visible on the Top and Upper Tang and along the rear side edges of the Receiver. no work on this action yet(20150104).

"Used, Stripped 1894 type Receiver": This receiver has a clearance cut in the 'shelf' between the Barrel socket and the Breech Block Pivot area to fit a Side Extractor with about a "7:00 O'clock tip position at the Breech face. I have collected almost all parts for it now, just needing to find a Main Spring to complete the Assembly of the Action. Still awaiting a Main Spring(20150114).

"Upgraded Stevens 1894 Actions (two)": I had one of these in hand for a short period to test fire and returned it with some problems to be corrected, the other one will be 'worked' after the first one is shooting correctly. Both of these are with my Gunsmith and are on the 'Back burner again as he is planning to go on a "location Film shoot later this month(20150114).

"Used, Stripped and 'Bubba Repaired' 1894 Type Receiver": This Receiver was purchased to get the Hammer, Trigger, and two Pivot screws that were in it but it is being 'saved' as it is somewhat unique to me. This receiver has a 'spring and attachment screw in the bottom of the Breech Block Pivot area apparently intended to bear on the bottom of the Breech block Pivot 'ears' to help hold it tight. The Upper Tang has been broken off and Brass Brazed back on, the Lower tang has been broken off and a substitute made and Welded on with a Nut Welded to the end to take a machine Screw down though the Upper Tang mount hole, both Tangs are about the same length now. There is one Sight mounting hole in the Upper tang and NO holes in the Bottom Tang, so attaching action springs might be difficult. The Welding on the Bottom Tang seems to be of the ARC variety and not very smoothly applied. Some attempt at grinding it smooth had been done but there is a LOT left to go before it would look presentable at all. The Brass Braze on the Upper Tang gives me some worry for both strength of attachment and future finishing. The 'Standard' Stevens Tang sight mounting hole front position falls directly in the Brazed area. Thinking of selling this one to an interested party along with some excess parts for him to use as a "learning project" but nothing firm yet(201501140.

"Stevens Model 44 action with New Old Stock Breech Block": Some progress has been made on this one over the holidays, I got the BB, Link, and Lever assembled and 'fitted' the BB to the Action so it now closes tightly adn Bears on both Rear shoulders of Receiver. I also have a Hammer and a Trigger in this receiver but still no correct springs, this is the one with the Paul Shuttleworth Butt Stock for which I ordered Forearm wood from Gail at CPA Rifles(20150114).

"Stevens Model 44 Type Receiver with 'Side Extractor provision": This private purchase receiver is now complete with all needed parts to make it a Functional Action, using a 1894 Favorite type main spring and trigger spring. Just needing fitting and finishing of the extractors for cartridge/caliber (.22, .25ACP, .25 Stevens, and .32s). I have now mounted a 'Italian" Vernier Tang Peep to this Receiver along with a used butt stock and butt plate. Now it sits waiting for more money and gunsmith time(20150114)

These two 'model 44' receivers share the same style of Barrel attachment but do not seem to share the identical dimensions as a barrel for one will not completely go into the other for securing. I think this is reasonable as the two are slightly different production eras, one being a 'Side Extractor' model and the other being a 'Center Extractor' model. After close measuring i find there are TWO Different Diameters of the Breech end of the Sockets so now I know why. I will need to decide if I want to rework them to use interchangeable barrels among all receivers(20150114).

"Stevens Marksman partial Kit": This project has been fitted with a 're-purposed' used barrel in .22RF (marked for all three sizes) of about 19" length. I have test fired it and returned it to my gunsmith to correct some minor problems with Hammer/firing pin light strikes and a rear sight position problem. No progress on this one by my gunsmith as previously reported above(21050114).

" M1 Carbine conversion to 45 Win. Mag.": No reported progress on this project by my gunsmith other than threading the Blank Barrel to fit the receiver920150114).

I did purchase a new manufacture M1 Carbine Receiver built to full USGI Specifications by "Fulton Armory" for another project, this one will be a .30 Carbine Caliber with a Long Rifle Barrel and initially set up as a 'straight pull' manual bolt action. to see how it shoots that way. I also bought a Bolt assembly and a Slide from "Fulton Armory" to use in this project.
It is now sitting with my gunsmith awaiting time to profile the two Barrel Blanks (20150114).

".25ACP Lever action Rifle": Again, no real progress on this project; but I continue to collect items useful for it. I am waiting for my gunsmith to complete some of the projects of mine he already has in works. I did buy a Lothar Walther Barrel Blank fo rthis project adnit arrived before Christmas(20150114).

I may be needing to buy another gun safe to hold the additions to my 'collection' that are nearing completion. I am 'dithering' between another 8 gun one or a 14 gun one. And still no Decision nor funds yet(20150114).

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yesterday's mail delivery brought me my new CPA Rifles Model 44 forearm in Grade 3 Wood to go with the used Paul Shuttleworth 'Bench Rest' Butt stock I previously won on an Ebay auction. This forearm is the Single screw type for a Half Octagon-Half round '44' barrel and it fits my used Stevens "44" barrel in ".22LR" Very Nicely. The 'figure' in the wood is somewhat visible under the machined but not sanded surfaces and looks like it will finish up Beautifully. There is still some sanding to be done on the area just behind the 'Schnabel' tip as my fingers found a slight rough spot there.

Another item to be decided is whether or not I want to fit a Detachable Swivel stud to the Forearm; I have an M1A with a detachable swivel stud that takes a Biped rest if I desire.
IF I do, I will also need to figure out where the Stud should be located on the Forearm.

In the interim, I can admire it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top