A custom lever gun story.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Good job on building the gun YOU wanted; one that suits your needs, meets your goals and proves to all the naysayers that it CAN be done! Next step is to post pictures of the deer, hogs and maybe even an elk, if you are so fortunate, that were harvested with your 444 Marlin.
Flat Top, great write up. I had the same naysayers when I cut my 444XLR barrel to 20". I ignored them as you did. After 35 years with a .444 MG I had a pretty good idea of what the gun was capable of. I'm presently working on 350 gr loads for my North American heavyweight load.
Congratulation on the Peashooter. She's a beauty!!!
Congratulation on the Peashooter. She's a beauty!!!
Joined
·
90 Posts
Flat Top, Thank You for the wonderful article.
Much of what is in there I had gleaned from your Dangerous Game thread,
but it is nice to see it all spelled out in one sitting.
It must be quite something, lighting the fuse on some of
those loads
Now for the results of the Safari Grade.....
It should prove to be a fun project.
Much of what is in there I had gleaned from your Dangerous Game thread,
but it is nice to see it all spelled out in one sitting.
It must be quite something, lighting the fuse on some of
those loads
Now for the results of the Safari Grade.....
It should prove to be a fun project.
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
Starrbow; Its nice to have company!
Johnny; Yup, its a real "treat" to light off the hot ones. I eventually had to get one of those PAST shoulder pad things....it helped alot when shooting off the bench, but, they are uncomfortable to shoot with. At least I always walk away in one piece when using it! I still got a bit "punchy" (more so than usual) after a long session of working up loads, but, now that all that is done, I will shoot off hand from now on...not near as bad!
Johnny; Yup, its a real "treat" to light off the hot ones. I eventually had to get one of those PAST shoulder pad things....it helped alot when shooting off the bench, but, they are uncomfortable to shoot with. At least I always walk away in one piece when using it! I still got a bit "punchy" (more so than usual) after a long session of working up loads, but, now that all that is done, I will shoot off hand from now on...not near as bad!
For many years I used shot bags filled with sand between me and my rifles, the last 6/7 years I have been using a "Bell" Gel filled bicycle seat, the one that fits over an existing seat, I cut a piece of plywood that would match the inside of the seat and put the plywood side towards the rifle and the Gel side on my shoulder, I have never found anything better. the past shields get really hard in cold temps, but that Gel stays soft and flexible.
I could see where that 325gr load @ 2200+ fps with a 16.5" barrel would kick rather hard! I know my 325gr loads let you know you've pulled the trigger! 444's when woke'n up takes on a whole new meaning!
I could see where that 325gr load @ 2200+ fps with a 16.5" barrel would kick rather hard! I know my 325gr loads let you know you've pulled the trigger! 444's when woke'n up takes on a whole new meaning!
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
Starrbow: Good ideas! and, yes the PAST does get stiff in cold weather..................I can only imagine what the velocity of the 325 would be out of a 24" barreled XLR with the 2.665 COAL modification...I would guess 2400 or so. When I do the 2.700+ in the Safari Grade XLR, I just might run some 325's down the tube to see what kind of velocity I can get in the 24" barrel....be interesting to find out.
Joined
·
1,508 Posts
That is awesome, its like a giant 30-30
Just curious, but what does the disclosure at the bottom mean? Does it really say that the modifications made to your marlin are copy righted, and cant be duplicated or did i read that wrong?
Were you thinkn more a long the lines of you dont want people "customizing" a large amount of guns and passing them off as there own customs? i am just a bit confused.
Just curious, but what does the disclosure at the bottom mean? Does it really say that the modifications made to your marlin are copy righted, and cant be duplicated or did i read that wrong?
Were you thinkn more a long the lines of you dont want people "customizing" a large amount of guns and passing them off as there own customs? i am just a bit confused.
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
"a giant 30-30".... funny! LOL!
What the disclosure means is that there are legal rights held on the process and the article. There are also legal rights on earlier forms of the process held by others. If folks want to start chopping up their own guns thats their business....I am involved in a manufacturing business in another field, and this is the legal standard of operation/status quo that we adhere to. In any situation where "liability" or "loss" may be involved, this is standard procedure. Dont take it personal, because it is not. If further explanation is needed please feel free to contact me by email. Thanks! FT
What the disclosure means is that there are legal rights held on the process and the article. There are also legal rights on earlier forms of the process held by others. If folks want to start chopping up their own guns thats their business....I am involved in a manufacturing business in another field, and this is the legal standard of operation/status quo that we adhere to. In any situation where "liability" or "loss" may be involved, this is standard procedure. Dont take it personal, because it is not. If further explanation is needed please feel free to contact me by email. Thanks! FT
Flat Top,
It would be nice to see what the XLR and the 1-20 twist does with a 325gr Hardcast and pushed velocities. I know one of the attributes of the 1-38 MG is you need velocity to stabilize the heavier bullets, so you get heavier bullets that shoot best with close to maximum velocities.
All I own is MG barrel 444's, I did have a chance several years ago to play with a 1-20 ballard 444, and what I found was it was very forgiving in working up a load accuracy wise, but! it didn't have the same benefit in velocity as the MG guns.
The other thing I noticed with the 1-20 ballard was it lost penetration VS the MG but it did more damage, I guess the faster twist ( faster spinning bullet ) has a much different effect at the target. I have a 444 Cowboy with a 24" barrel and a 1-15 twist, it also causes more damage and less penetration, you really can tell the diference in steel plates, with a 325gr hardcast bullet it puts a nice hole in them, it didn't put a through hole, just a nice deep divit and I have never seen that with a big hardcast bullet before!
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,15271.0.html
It would be an intresting test to see just what the actual difference is for the same load/barrel length but different twist rates?
It would be nice to see what the XLR and the 1-20 twist does with a 325gr Hardcast and pushed velocities. I know one of the attributes of the 1-38 MG is you need velocity to stabilize the heavier bullets, so you get heavier bullets that shoot best with close to maximum velocities.
All I own is MG barrel 444's, I did have a chance several years ago to play with a 1-20 ballard 444, and what I found was it was very forgiving in working up a load accuracy wise, but! it didn't have the same benefit in velocity as the MG guns.
The other thing I noticed with the 1-20 ballard was it lost penetration VS the MG but it did more damage, I guess the faster twist ( faster spinning bullet ) has a much different effect at the target. I have a 444 Cowboy with a 24" barrel and a 1-15 twist, it also causes more damage and less penetration, you really can tell the diference in steel plates, with a 325gr hardcast bullet it puts a nice hole in them, it didn't put a through hole, just a nice deep divit and I have never seen that with a big hardcast bullet before!
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,15271.0.html
It would be an intresting test to see just what the actual difference is for the same load/barrel length but different twist rates?
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
Starrbow; As a rule of thumb, the more spin (or excessive spin) of a given bullet in a given twist, "reduces" LATERAL kinetic energy, and therefore reduces destructive power, instead becoming ROTATIONAL kinetic energy, increasing gyroscopic interia, which would support your findings. I would not expect the 1-20 in my 444 to have the same effects as the same bullet weight/velocity in your 1-38, if all other conditions (and there are many to take into consideration) were exactly the same. I am not a ballistics engineer, but, that is the way "I" understand what you have presented, but, this is WAY beyond my ballistic expertise!!! How much of a benefit or affect the 1-38 twist would actually provide on game animals under field conditions over the 1-20 twist as far as "penetration" capabilities is anybodies guess. My guess would be that either/or would produce one big hole in, and one big hole out, although the efficiency factor of one twist over the other may vary. I think that this would be a question, or a test for somebody like James Gates, who has the knowledge, training, and experience to come to a scientific conclusion.
The question I have is what twist rate may be better in keeping the bullet stable after impact for as long as possible? It seems to me the longer a bullet dosn't yaw, the better it can do it's job. I really doubt that theres much of a difference.
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
I believe that driving the longest bullet possible, that is suitable for the twist in your rifle, would produce the desired effects....Marshall had stabilization problems with the 405 in the 1-38 twist during his testing. I want to believe that more velocity was necessary than the rifle could produce, with that twist, in that barrel lenght, to stabilize that particular bullet. Stabilization(in flight) is a balancing act between bullet lenght, twist rate, and velocity. Keeping the bullet driving in a straight line after impact, would be more of a process of momentum and bullet shape.....but again, I am not a ballistics engineer. We NEED a ballistics engineer on this forum!!!! We have questions that need answering!!!!
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
