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Discussion Starter #1
With Marlin having priced themselves out of business, and Henry following that same course eventually, then maybe its high time that someone build an affordable levergun which handles some Stomper Calibers such as a 458 shortmag, or even a 500 Shortmag, etc.
 

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Whats "affordable"? Because if you're gonna say, "Under $500" then it's going to be a gun imported from a cheap, third world or developing country. This week I just bought my son a brand new Marlin 1895 STBL in 45-70, stainless with nice walnut stocks and a Pachmayer Decelerator pad. Hang tag had $779.99 on it, pretty reasonable I thought for all the extras and what Marlin says is a limited edition. Shot it yesterday, his first two shots at 25yds with iron sights were touching. Plan on a VX3 atop it soon, he hasn't decided which yet.

Anyway, the only leverguns I've seen from Italy and Japan were NOT cheap! The Brazilian Rossi "Rio Grande" I've seen have stocks that look like they came from cheap table or chairlegs! :eek: I'm sure the guns mechanicals are ok, but man the wood on those things is hideous at best. (thought they had great wood in the Amazon forests? :D ) Talk about a fatchick with hairy warts all over! :eek: Some sandpaper and Birchwood Casey would for sure be in order. Yesterday while shooting my sons 1895 I had my grandfathers 1968 336RC in 35Rem punching paper right alongside its "great grandson". The ol 35 looks bettern new and works like a charm. I wonder how the Rossi's and other "cheapers" will be after 40+yrs of use?

Have you looked at the Marlin 1895 GBL? They are priced in the "upper 5s" and bring ALOT to the table (6shot mag, big loop, L/R hammer spur etc...). As for the Henry, I've only seen the less than flattering pics of a prototype on their website. As per the CEO of Henry, the guns will start shipping in May. Street prices are in the 6s from what I've seen. I'm VERY intersted in the gun and for a reason many don't like... the tube load mag. Less scratched up cases and less wear on th action!

Just glad we have 2 U.S. levergun makers left (and a couple other custom makers as well but their prices start about $2k!), wish for traditions sake Winchester still built their big levers over here!
HL

Ps
Now as for this "458 SM"? DO TELL!!!
 

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.458 Short mag? You mean like the .450 Marlin? Ballistically would they not be very close to the same? Heck, even the .45-70 is a pretty stout round fully equal to the .450 Marlin when loaded properly, not the lame stuff the larger ammo makers offer.
Why is it that people scream about all the crap coming into this country then complain about paying for quality merchandise that comes from a US company that pays its workers a living wage. Then after waving their BUY USA flag all over the place, they then run to Wal-Mart to buy the Chi-com garbage because it is cheaper? Are so many of us that cheap?
My own little local gun shop manager complains about Wal-Mart starting to carry AR-15 guns and parts now, saying it will put him out of business, yet he has no qualms about running down to Wally world to buy his groceries, hardware items, auto supplies... Am I the only one who finds that odd? I guess so. It's not like Wal-Mart has not been doing this for decades. They come into an area, undercut the local businesses even selling at a loss sometimes, then after all the local small businesses fold they have the whole market to themselves and more often than not, the prices go up.
 
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I have a Rossie Model 1892 clone in .357 / .38 & .45 LC . I love them .

Yes , the wood is not the most beautiful , but as long as it is sound , I am more interested in the metal than the wood . Each to his / her own .

I think I have about $ 425 each , in them .

I am temped by the Rossi .45-70 I saw some time ago , at Academy . $ 449 , if I recall .

If I could get past some other bills , one might follow me home ?

Do not need it , I have 2 Marlin .45-70's . Just a case of the wants . :-(

Oh , and I also have a case of the wants for a second Lee LoadMaster .

God bless
Wyr
 

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Whats "affordable"? Because if you're gonna say, "Under $500" then it's going to be a gun imported from a cheap, third world or developing country. This week I just bought my son a brand new Marlin 1895 STBL in 45-70, stainless with nice walnut stocks and a Pachmayer Decelerator pad. Hang tag had $779.99 on it, pretty reasonable I thought for all the extras and what Marlin says is a limited edition. Shot it yesterday, his first two shots at 25yds with iron sights were touching. Plan on a VX3 atop it soon, he hasn't decided which yet.

Anyway, the only leverguns I've seen from Italy and Japan were NOT cheap! The Brazilian Rossi "Rio Grande" I've seen have stocks that look like they came from cheap table or chairlegs! :eek: I'm sure the guns mechanicals are ok, but man the wood on those things is hideous at best. (thought they had great wood in the Amazon forests? :D ) Talk about a fatchick with hairy warts all over! :eek: Some sandpaper and Birchwood Casey would for sure be in order. Yesterday while shooting my sons 1895 I had my grandfathers 1968 336RC in 35Rem punching paper right alongside its "great grandson". The ol 35 looks bettern new and works like a charm. I wonder how the Rossi's and other "cheapers" will be after 40+yrs of use?

Have you looked at the Marlin 1895 GBL? They are priced in the "upper 5s" and bring ALOT to the table (6shot mag, big loop, L/R hammer spur etc...). As for the Henry, I've only seen the less than flattering pics of a prototype on their website. As per the CEO of Henry, the guns will start shipping in May. Street prices are in the 6s from what I've seen. I'm VERY intersted in the gun and for a reason many don't like... the tube load mag. Less scratched up cases and less wear on th action!

Just glad we have 2 U.S. levergun makers left (and a couple other custom makers as well but their prices start about $2k!), wish for traditions sake Winchester still built their big levers over here!
HL

Ps
Now as for this "458 SM"? DO TELL!!!
A Marlin .45-70 should shoot at least to 2" at 100 yards , maybe 1" ? With proper ammo .

With cast lead bullets , my Marlin .45-70's like bullets in the .460" range .

Should have no problem hitting the 200 meter rams with iron sights .

God bless
Wyr
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My lamebrained idea is to have a Browning BLR Shortmag rebarreled to .458 caliber based upon the 300 Shortmag case. Of course the BLR is known as a STOMPER to some people, but I'd accept that challenge in a Big Bore caliber such as a 458 WSSM.
 

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Swampy, there's no reason that you could not fit that BLR with a new buttstock with a straighter comb and a wider, taller butt with a Sorbathane pad. Check the dimensions on a few bonafide dangerous game guns to see what I mean. Think European or A Square.
 

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Swampdoc, I support you most heartily in your desire for a BLR 458 WSSM! They have the bolt face size already, so it'd merely be a case of a chamber reamer and a magazine follower. They wouldn't even _have_ to shorten the action if they didn't want to. A simple block in the back of the mag and something similar in the bolt carrier group would do it. Or, they could shorten the whole receiver up anyway, and then chamber it for pistol cartridges, too!
:)

P.S. If you succeed in getting someone to do a full re-barrel on a BLR (using a non-Browning chambering, and most preferably on the current aluminum receiver), PLEASE let me know!
 

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Browning never made an appropriate action for the BLR in a WSSM. I think you are mixing up your Winchester Short Mags, which if you are going to ref a wildcat off of them, you should probably say WSM instead of just short mag. Just saying short mag could be based off the 450 Marlin, the SAUM, the RCM, the WSM, Lazzeroni...heck technically, all the old school writers talk about 30-06 length magnums as SHORT mags because they are shorter then 375 H&H length "true" mags.

Saying that, its been done, and it isn't cheap. The BLR is a biznitch to work with on rebarreling, unless you have one of the older steel frame models and not the newer alum. models and by newer that is anything made after like 1982 I think.

2 ways to go about this, you get a BLR in 450 Marlin (yea, they make those if anyone didn't know) and have an extremely competent gunsmith crack the action and open, rechamber, set back the barrel, do all the feed work, and figure out a way to make 325WSM magazines feed correctly (and those are 60$ a pop, you'll probably need 3-4 at least, figuring a few will be trashed in the process). Or you get a BLR in one of the WSM's and pay some a LOT of money to rebarrel one, if you can find a smith who does. A lot of them will be very hesitant about taking on the project. Plus, they're still going to have to alter magazines, feeding problems, and so on.

OR, just buy the BLR in 450 Marlin and call it good. You could also probably load that 450 way past SAAMI, seeing as the BLR can handle cartridges in the 65kpsi range, no reason to keep the 450 at its (I THINK) 40kpsi limits. This, would be easiest, cheapest, and most effective. Just saying :)
 

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The answer to this is very simple: There isn't much demand for a cartridge that kicks like Ernesto Hoost and has the range of a 30/30. If you want short-range stomp, there are plenty of guns/cartridges for that, already being made. Not many guys are asking for MORE recoil than a modestly loaded 45/70...last I checked.
 
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IIRC, the BLR is already available from the factory in .450 Marlin - which IS a ".458", loaded to top-end .45-70 ballistics, right on the heels of the .458 Winchester.

It's issued with a velvet bag, that the shooter can put their teeth in, after they pick them off the ground................... :p

.
 

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.458 Short Mag ? How about one that is 1/10 inch shorter than the Winchester .458 Magnum and has 96 % of the powder capacity? You need an oldie, not a new kluge.
Here is my Miroku Winchester1886 .45-90 or .aka .458 2.4

You can load it light or heavy or VERY heavy such a our African DG load of 450 grain Kodiak at 2150 fps.

Nothing new under the sun? It gets the job done.
 

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How about the fact that this thread is over 8 years old and the OP doesn’t even have a valid profile anymore?



.[/B]
 

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How about the fact that this thread is over 8 years old and the OP doesn’t even have a valid profile anymore?



.[/B]
I'm amused at how things mentioned (argued) above no longer apply to today's markets and conditions. You won't find AR's at Wally World and they never stocked any Winchester clones (92's and 86's specifically) And one guy's ragging on Rossi's guns was completely unfounded. I own 4 of them and love em all. 2, Mod 92 Oct. 26" BBl rifles, two 20" short rifles, neither of which were reproduced by Winchester. Also have two Browning 86 rifles and the workmanship is top notch.
 
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