[cottonstalk]

Okay I took the plunge last season and used strictly cast ammo.I got mixed results.So since the off season I have been doing a lot of research on this site and a few others.As a general rule most agree that metaplat kills.I have read that any metaplat that equals 78% of the bullets diameter should offer good performance on game.One source says LFN and WFN offer almost(not exactly)the same wounding characteristics.

Taking just the above stated, a BTB 300gr LFN has a metaplat of .325 which in 45colt sized .453 is only 72%.So the best I can figure (in 45colt only) to get the maximum "bullet performance" only a WFN,WLN and Kieth style is efficent.I am trying to learn so bare with me.

Some say the WFNs are harder to stabalize and have to be driven near max to get good accuracy.Most say LFNs and Kieths are accurate.I am pretty sure I got this next part,weight plays a big part in penetration,and max loads aren't necessary to acheive optimum performance.

So my question is this what about the other nose designs such as LMN & Truncated.What I am trying to do is find the right round and get to work.Yes I can buy a box of each but I was hoping to learn from those with more knowledge and experience and try to catch the learning curve.

Here are some final thoughts,all my loads will be between 1000-1250max.White-tail,hogs,black bear,and elk will be the game pursued.I would like one load to do it all.My weapons are a blackhawk hunter and a blackhawk w/ a 4 5/8"bl.I have been going back and forth and all around over a 275kieth/280 wfn & lfn/285lmn/300 wfn,lfn,truncated/315kieth/320 lfn/325 wfn,lfn/350 truncated.Any advice or knowledge appreciated,or point me in the direction where I can find it,thanks.

 

[jmortimer]

I shoot at the lower end of your range due to fact I have "New" Vaquero in .45 Colt and am limited to 280 grain max bullets due to smaller cylinder length - .375" max length nose to crimp. I have settled on the 265 grain keith and the 255 WFN (I like plain base bullets) with 9 to10 grains of Unique. It is all about the meplat. I promote Beartooth bullets as the best but here are two options - The Penn Bullets Thunderhead and get this a 225 grain wadcutter with a full profile meplat - how great is that. The Thunderhead looks like a winner.
http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html
http://www.pennbullets.com/thunderheads.html

 

[jwp475]

Okay I took the plunge last season and used strictly cast ammo.I got mixed results.So since the off season I have been doing a lot of research on this site and a few others.As a general rule most agree that metaplat kills.I have read that any metaplat that equals 78% of the bullets diameter should offer good performance on game.One source says LFN and WFN offer almost(not exactly)the same wounding characteristics.

Taking just the above stated, a BTB 300gr LFN has a metaplat of .325 which in 45colt sized .453 is only 72%.So the best I can figure (in 45colt only) to get the maximum "bullet performance" only a WFN,WLN and Kieth style is efficent.I am trying to learn so bare with me.

Some say the WFNs are harder to stabalize and have to be driven near max to get good accuracy.Most say LFNs and Kieths are accurate.I am pretty sure I got this next part,weight plays a big part in penetration,and max loads aren't necessary to acheive optimum performance.

So my question is this what about the other nose designs such as LMN & Truncated.What I am trying to do is find the right round and get to work.Yes I can buy a box of each but I was hoping to learn from those with more knowledge and experience and try to catch the learning curve.

Here are some final thoughts,all my loads will be between 1000-1250max.White-tail,hogs,black bear,and elk will be the game pursued.I would like one load to do it all.My weapons are a blackhawk hunter and a blackhawk w/ a 4 5/8"bl.I have been going back and forth and all around over a 275kieth/280 wfn & lfn/285lmn/300 wfn,lfn,truncated/315kieth/320 lfn/325 wfn,lfn/350 truncated.Any advice or knowledge appreciated,or point me in the direction where I can find it,thanks.

72% works. Second the original "Kieth" style SWC had a rather small meplat as Kieth believe incorrectly that the wadcutter shoulder cut a full caliber hole. This has been proven to be incorrect. There are alot lot of wide meplat SWC hard cast bullets on the market advertised as "Keith" style which has deluted the meaning of the term and is an incorrect terminology

 

[Flat Top]

Cottonstalk; You sound a lot like I used to be...nitpicking every detail down to the "nth" degree. After listening to "saner" minds than mine, I started using a Kieth 250 at 1000 fps for deer, many, many years ago, at the suggestion of a friend. I have "never" had that load fail to fully penetrate a deer regardless of the angle that it was shot at...even through heavy shoulder bone. A number of years ago I came across the info on the heavyweight large meplat bullets, and thought to myself that an increase in weight while maintaing that same 1000 fps velocity could only "better" my original load. I have finally found the time to start working with 300 and 325 grain bullets at 1000 fps for the purpose of taking deer. The only reason I am making this change is because I (and most) feel that the larger meplates create a bit larger wound channel.....just a bit of an improvment on what I had used before, but, an improvement none the less. My advice, is dont concern yourself with a few thousanths difference in meplat. Any meplat that exceeds the Kieth will be an improvement. This is important: Choose a cast bullet that has an alloy that has been "proven" in the field (my choice is Beartooths), and that is deadly accurate in your firearm. Your velocity goals are right in the ballpark for optimum penetration, and with any of the larger meplat bullets, combined with an extremely accurate load, your hunting load cannot help but be a winner.

 

[MikeG]

Don't sweat it too much, as posted above. OK, little history: the "Keith" SWC in .44 mag had a meplat of about .280" or so. This on a .44 caliber bullet. That worked, so we can infer that wider will work, also. Narrower? Might have to experiment a little.

Speaking strictly of iron-sighted handguns, then at "normal" ranges any of your selections should work just great. For myself "normal" is 50 yards or so. Others may be better shots and can reach out farther. Might a person see differences in accuracy out beyond those ranges? You bet, there are lots of shooters here who like to ring steel gongs out at 200, 300 yards with iron-sighted handguns. Wish I could do that! For those shooters there may be definite advantages / disadvantages to the various bullet profiles. Listen carefully to what they have to say if that is your game.

The main reasons for the different nose profiles - LFN, LMN, etc., etc., have to do with feeding in rifles and just maximizing powder space under the bullet. Important in some chamberings / guns and less in others. Example, Redhawks have a long cylinder and you can gain a lot of powder space with the right nose profile and crimp length. At the other end of the spectrum, Marlin .444 rifles have a very short throat and you need a different nose design to not eat up all the powder space. .35 Rem is another example and it goes on and on.

So...... rule of thumb, if you have a meplat of .280" then you should have just as good of performance as the classic Keith bullet. Anything over that is further improvement.

Specific recommendation.... you won't need these for deer but a Beartooth 300gr. WFN bullet will go through both shoulders of a bison, at about 1200fps in a .45 Colt load. That should tell you that stepping down the weight and velocity will still work fine for deer.

Good luck and hope that helps. Ask more if you don't understand .....