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I got a new Remington 700 CDL in .30 06. I put a Leopold Rifleman 3X9x50 on it with a Game Reaper mount. The thing will shoot at 8 MOA. I was shocked. I carefully inspected the rifle and noticed that the crown has some chipping on it. It looks like it was there from the factory because the damage has been blued over by the bluing process. Remington will take it back to look at it and make a repair if they think it was not my fault. They will charge me for the shipping.

The question I have is it a better rout to send the rifle in to a gun smith ($300 to $500 cost) to be accurized instead of to Remington to inspect it and possibly recrown it. I just don't know if after going to Remington that it would shoot to ~1 MOA, which is what I am looking for. The rifle is so bad now that I doubt the recrowing will bring it to ~ 1MOA. Seems to me that it needs other work like rebedding the barrel.

I am not looking to use it for competition, just deer hunting. I would like to have confidence to shoot out to 200 yards, which is why I would like 1 MOA.

Any advice would be helpful.

Joe
 

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Jbelk,a member here had a post a while back with photos that showed what appeared to be chipping on the crown. Guess it's common on their current production button rifled barrels. I'd like to believe Remington would take care of it, but my experience with their customer service is, they will send your rifle back saying , "everything is within spec".

Unless you are able to do the necessary work yourself, think I'd cut your losses and use the new Remington as trading material on a rifle that has a reputation as a shooter.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Post by Jbelk

Hi MontyF. Can you show me where the post is? I looked and cant find it.
 

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Pie plate groups at a hundred yards is not good!! What 'shape' are the groups? Do the round 'walk' or 'skip' or scatter?
I can guide you through re-crowning if you have an electric drill. That would take away one possibility but I'll bet you have more problems than just that. MOST of the time, a pie plate rifle has one thing REALLY wrong that fixes it. What shape are the groups, what ammo, what range and what rest?

Pictures are of M700 30-06 factory crown and custom lapped crown.
 

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The Very First thing I would do is to look at the scope mounting and see if the Mounts are snugged up but not Farmer tight.
Assuming the scope is mounted properly and that is not the issue I would then remove the scope and mount a scope that you know is working right.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
More Info

The scope was mounted using a torque screw driver to the recommended torque for both the mount and the rings. I am sure that it is not over tightened, at least from what the torque wrench indicated. The groups are round, does not drift with each shot. It seems that there is no pattern to how the shots come in.

I am a little reluctant to recrown the rifle my self. I think Remington will do that, but a really dont think that that is the whole problem. But I might be wrong.

The test was using Remington Core Lokt ammo 165 and 150 gr. The distance was 25 yards. It shot a 2 inch group consistently. I used barrel rest. It is quite light, so when the gun goes off it jumps up quite a bit.

My crown damage is wwwwaaaaayyyy more that what JeBlk is showing in those pictures. I don't think it goes down into the rifling, but it is right on the inner lip. Would this cause a 8 MOA group?



I don't have a box magazine. It has an internal magazine. The casings don't eject with force but seem to eject as designed. I inspected the casings and only noticed a very slight impression on the wall of the case near the back. I only see it when I reflect the light off the case. It is very consistent with all of the cases. It might be an imperfection in the chamber which is causing it. I don't think that its is affecting accuracy at all.
 

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The most common 'out of the box' problem with pie plate shooters is the magazine box not mounted correctly.
TEST--
Loosen the front tang screw. Did the barrel raise up? How about the back one? The metal and stock should bed solidly around the tang screws. If the box is out of place it 'bows' the action and flings bullets out in the bushes.

With round groups, it points to a barrel problem, not a bedding problem but there are a dozen other possibilities, too.
Recrowning is a fifteen minute job and nearly impossible to mess up.
 

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I'd send it back, see what Remington does, and if it helps.

If it doesn't then do as Monty said "use the new Remington as trading material ".

My new remington, bought last fall, shoots 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards...about what most of the new guns are shooting. I'd suggest that you never use a machine rest that doesn't allow for the gun to recoil rearward. those designs (lead sled) will always kick the rifle upward, enlarging the group. try just sandbags under front and rear. does that improve things???
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Where those scratches are well away from the end of the rifling, I can't absolutely say with 100% certainty that's what's causing your foul groups. A bit of polishing will take out those scratches.

Could be as much the ammo as anything else.

I've never had a 700 that couldn't be made to shoot under an inch with a little tinkering.

RJ
 

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I just saw the picture!
YIKES!! What a NASTY crowning job! The dings you're seeing are handling marks which probably explains the weird crown. I can't see the important edge of the rifling all the way around but seeing the overall appearance, I'd assume its as bad as the rest. That one CANNOT be cured at home in 15 minutes, either. The barrel has to be removed and the barrel crowned right. That's as bad a factory job as I've ever seen.

If it were me, I'd shoot a fifty yard target on a paper plate and send it in with the gun and suggest they either fix or replace it.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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lanjo, take a head on close up picture and post it please? From that one I don't see nicks in the actual riflings.

Not saying others are wrong, but IMO it needs a second chance.

RJ
 

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Look at how that crown was made. It's plunge cut to a square corner. We all know what happens to cases we trim the same way and use a de-burring tool to get that sharp rind off the corners. Crowns are usually deburred by lapping so the corner is totally sharp but has no burr. Yes, shooting does knock those burrs off but not cleanly.
This particular crown could be lapped but the geometry says 'no'.

"Target crowns" in this case is probably done to hide the fact the hole isn't in the middle of the barrel. "Round crowns", as usually seen on hunting rifles, are usually not 'square' with the bore. The crown is narrower on one side so the peripheral cut is not absolutely square to the bore line. Not a big deal and 'normal' for generations, but at some point somebody says "WOW! This barrel is crooked." and QC gets tired of fixing them.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I need more data before I can judge the crown.

RJ
 
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The Shadow
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Yeah, a single off angle picture doesn't give anyone the "geometry" of what is or isn't there.
Need a head on shot.
 
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My thoughts are: Can you do without that rifle for a couple of three weeks? I'd send it to Remington and tell them "My rifle is shooting like a scattergun. It doesn't matter to me if you determine the crown is within specs or isn't affecting the accuracy, I don't pay money for rifles with a chewed up crown. Please repair or replace the barrel."
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Straight Look Crown

Here is a strait shot looking down at the crown. I would say after further inspection the largest spot of damage does indeed go into the rifling. I would think that this would at least cause some of the accuracy problems.



I am committed to sending it back to Remington for repair. I think I have a good case not to have to pay for it. The damage is blued over meaning that it was caused before the rifle was finally blued. It almost certainly happened at the factory. Now I just have to convince Remington of this. I hear they have poor customer service and will try to screw every customer out of every dime, but I have to be persistent.

I have never sent a rifle through the mail. Do you recommend that I get a hard case for the shipment, or can I use the box the gun came in? I assume a hard case is needed.

Joe
 

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Remington will send a box with a pre-paid label. Stand your ground. Ask them what they found and how they fixed it, too. It'll come back with a report that should include 'shoot for group'.
 

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Yup, that's a real dog....rough, ruff....

More seriously, I'd write a detailed letter and include that picture and a picture of a 100 yard target with the rifle. That is what I did with a Remlin (Marlin by Remington) that as a new rifle had very serious QC issues. I chose to send it directly to the Remington repair facility and not a contracted vendor repair service. I received a VERY nicely finished rifle in return 3 weeks later with everything I mentioned repaired correctly, plus one other small item I didn't mention also fixed.

Best of luck!!
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Looking further and if I wasn't a tinker, I'd send it back. Make them fix or replace it.

Wonder how it got that way anyway. :confused:

RJ
 

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Look close and you'll see the dings are not actually in the crown. The crown is recessed below that level. Thanks to the good picture, we see the 'crown' is flat with a 90 degree corner on the lands. It'll take 20X magnification to see the condition of those corners. I suspect they're chipped and flaked and pitted.

That recess means the crown can't be properly lapped until the end of the barrel is trimmed so a lap can get to it.

I don't see 8MOA of bad crown, even though it is a nasty-looking thing that obviously kept the gun from being damaged with those dings.

Here's an off-beat idea but the only defect I've ever seen that caused really bad accuracy....and danger.
Look closely at the bolt head at the junction of the locking lug and the bolt body. Do you see any indication that junction is hitting the receiver? It should be that the locking lugs only touch the recesses and bear flat against them. Remington made a batch with too large a radius at the lug-body junction so the lugs didn't touch, only the corner of the lug recess hit the radius. Headspace was already set back by .012 and it had the accuracy of a wrist rocket shooting butter beans.

Edit The very best crowning 'Tool' you can buy is a 20X 'hand glass' as used by geologist and jewelers. A rifle's crown is the one place magnification is the only way to see what's important.
 
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