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Take more pictures before you send it back. Closer than you already have if you can.
I don't think Remington is going to try to screw you, but I'm a born skeptic.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Look close and you'll see the dings are not actually in the crown. The crown is recessed below that level.
Yep, hard to lap that crown, but if one was a tinker . . .

I don't see 8MOA of bad crown, even though it is a nasty-looking thing that obviously kept the gun from being damaged with those dings.
Me neither. Maybe one got to the riflings, still hard to see in the "top" of the photo. I bet with my 11° crown cutter and a lap with 200 grit paste and a few other tricks I'd have it under an inch if not better.

RJ
 

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'Freshening' a crown takes less than five minutes and should be the very first thing looked at when dealing with a problem rifle. Most of the time, with 20X help, the specific defect can be found, but lap anyhow. It cost you almost .0005 of barrel length and five minutes and cost less than the electrons it takes to say it.

Instructions?
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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'Freshening' a crown takes less than five minutes and should be the very first thing looked at when dealing with a problem rifle.
There's at least ten things I'd do before touching the crown.

1. Stock contact (I float every barrel first if they don't shoot)

2. Cartridge box contact between bottom metal and action

3. Action screw torque

4. Different ammo(s)

5. Sight security/integrity

6. Is it clean? No REALLY clean, back to black clean.

7. Action bedding

8. Better rest

9. Better technique

10. Different shooter. If I'm having a bad day, I'll put somebody else on the bang switch.

There's more, but I said ten so I'll stop there ;)

RJ
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
More Images Rem 700

Here is a close-up of the worst damage to the crown. You can see that it does extend down into the very tip of the land. See the red arrow. Not the best image, but the best I could get with my phone at that close distance.



Here are images of the bolt head. I don't know if you guys can see something here that I don't. It seems that the wear is mostly on the lugs, as I would expect. I don't see anything on the shaft of the bolt near the lugs. But this gun has only been shot 20 times.






Do you guys see anything else I can point out to Remington in my letter? I thin the crown has some to do with the 8MOA. But I agree with you guys there is something else wrong with the gun. I hope Remington just gives me a total replacement.

Best,

Joe
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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You need to look at the back side if the lugs, where it locks against the action. Your pics are the bottom of the lugs, where it slides on the rails (not the important side). I'd the lug contact with the receiver is all mucked up, such as only one lug making contact; you have problems.

Like RJ said, there is a train load of things to address before lamenting the crown.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I mark the rear of the lugs with a black marker, close the bolt on an empty chamber, check the "ink" for even marks, repeat with a spent casing. If the marks aren't even I'll take some 400 grit paste and "lap" the one making the most contact until both are as even as I can get them. This is often a long and drawn out process what with all the cleaning of paste, marking, checking, relapping, cleaning, marking . . . . . . .

No this doesn't increase headspace to any measurable degree even with shooting only factory ammo.

It's about how much you like to tinker I guess and something any gunsmith should do and then charge you dearly for his time spent doing what you can do "for free" plus you get to fondle and caress your rifle. :D

RJ
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Back of Bolt

Here is the back of the bolt. You can see that one of the lugs has a lot more wear that the other. There is a log stretch of wear on the outer edge and the corner of one lug (red circle and arrows) but not the other. Is this an issue which would cause accuracy problems.


 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I'd hafta agree at this point.

Woulda been nice to have seen that upon its arrival at the gun shop. Have them send it back and order me a new one that day.

Not the that a bit of tinkering couldn't make it better ;)

RJ
 

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Resize that picture please!! No more that 1500 on a side.

There are a BUNCH of things that cause 'inaccuracy'. Very very few that cause round groups and severe inaccuracy.

Remington bolts are made in three pieces. The head, the body and the handle. They're attached by silver brazing done by induction heating. Of course it's a balancing act to get the parts hot enough to braze without drawing the heat-treat of the bolt head back too much. They perfected it in the 1940s. BUT, the bolt head is a complicated machined part made separate and then attached. They,re turned from forged bar stock. The machining processes can be seen by the tool marks left on the part. Somebody loaded a tool with the wrong radius to cut the back of the bolt lugs and left a fillet wide enough to catch the corner of the lug recess which held the bolt about .015 out of engagement with the locking lugs. Every shot set the bolt back a couple thou and case started showing separation and accuracy was just a word. There was none.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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They,re turned from forged bar stock. The machining processes can be seen by the tool marks left on the part. Somebody loaded a tool with the wrong radius to cut the back of the bolt lugs and left a fillet wide enough to catch the corner of the lug recess which held the bolt about .015 out of engagement with the locking lugs. Every shot set the bolt back a couple thou and case started showing separation and accuracy was just a word. There was none.
I don't understand. How did you measure that bolt with just a picture and I don't remember the OP saying about head separation.

One of the things that can cause round groups is the stock putting odd pressure on the barrel as the barrel heats up from firing.

Another is one scope mount on the receiver and the other on the barrel, the barrel heats but the receiver doesn't causing all kinds of weirdness. Those Unertl scope mounts were an "exception" because they were (usually) spring loaded, not solid. (or at least the few I've seen)

King Pike mounts would also "shoot in circles" if the springs got weak from being collapsed for a hundred years.

RJ
 
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Sorry RJ--- I was describing a problem IDed in the '80s that caused the worst factory accuracy I've ever seen. The pictured bolt is about average for finish but the 'root' of the lugs are square and not radiused as seen and described above.

General rules of thumb---
Bedding problems either walk or clump shots. 'Heating up' causes walking. Uneven locking lugs cause vertical groups. A bolt handle hitting something causes horizontal groups. Loose scope mounts usually skip shot to and from, back and forth, etc. ROUND groups indicates a bad barrel or a disconnected scope reticle.

Without being able to see it and shoot the gun, I'm guessing with everyone else. It's fun to experiment, but having to make a living from bad shooting rifles mean the troubleshooting process is usually shortened considerably. Range days are expensive. Lathe days or profitable. Customer talking days are just wasted unless the right questions are asked and answered.

The results of barrel wear can be seen in some of the gun camera clips on youtube. Once in a while, a burst from six or eight M-2 50s in strafing runs show wild spiraling tracers WAY out of the stream. I've seen the same thing in the fixed mount infiltration course 30s.
I wonder about the bore diameter of the OP's rifle....
 

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I got a new Remington 700 CDL in .30 06. I put a Leopold Rifleman 3X9x50 on it with a Game Reaper mount. The thing will shoot at 8 MOA. I was shocked. I carefully inspected the rifle and noticed that the crown has some chipping on it. It looks like it was there from the factory because the damage has been blued over by the bluing process. Remington will take it back to look at it and make a repair if they think it was not my fault. They will charge me for the shipping.

The question I have is it a better rout to send the rifle in to a gun smith ($300 to $500 cost) to be accurized instead of to Remington to inspect it and possibly recrown it. I just don't know if after going to Remington that it would shoot to ~1 MOA, which is what I am looking for. The rifle is so bad now that I doubt the recrowing will bring it to ~ 1MOA. Seems to me that it needs other work like rebedding the barrel.

I am not looking to use it for competition, just deer hunting. I would like to have confidence to shoot out to 200 yards, which is why I would like 1 MOA.

Any advice would be helpful.

Joe
I was a big 700 fan for years but no more. I have a custom heavy barrel varmint rifle built in 6BR that will shoot virtually one hole groups but the 700 action has been trued/blue printed a number of years ago. The stuff Remington is building now is junk in my opinion. The actions are not worth owning. I would send the rifle back to Remington and tell them to fix it or give you your money back. If it will not shoot 1 moa or better it isn't worth owning. Better yet, sell it and get a rifle built with one of the fine after market 700 clone actions out there and a cut rifled barrel. Then you will have something worth owning. In any regard, good luck to you. Sucks to see Remington building such junk today.
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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Cerberus, should tell you all you need to know.;)
 

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I got a new Remington 700 CDL in .30 06. I put a Leopold Rifleman 3X9x50 on it with a Game Reaper mount. The thing will shoot at 8 MOA. I was shocked. I carefully inspected the rifle and noticed that the crown has some chipping on it. It looks like it was there from the factory because the damage has been blued over by the bluing process. Remington will take it back to look at it and make a repair if they think it was not my fault. They will charge me for the shipping.

The question I have is it a better rout to send the rifle in to a gun smith ($300 to $500 cost) to be accurized instead of to Remington to inspect it and possibly recrown it. I just don't know if after going to Remington that it would shoot to ~1 MOA, which is what I am looking for. The rifle is so bad now that I doubt the recrowing will bring it to ~ 1MOA. Seems to me that it needs other work like rebedding the barrel.

I am not looking to use it for competition, just deer hunting. I would like to have confidence to shoot out to 200 yards, which is why I would like 1 MOA.

Any advice would be helpful.

Joe
 

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of first can you free float the barrel to the action,,,,,,,,slip a paper between barrel while on the stock all the way back to the action,,,otherwise good gunsmith have him check it recrowning shouldnt be major issue......
 

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Straight Look Crown

Here is a strait shot looking down at the crown. I would say after further inspection the largest spot of damage does indeed go into the rifling. I would think that this would at least cause some of the accuracy problems.



I am committed to sending it back to Remington for repair. I think I have a good case not to have to pay for it. The damage is blued over meaning that it was caused before the rifle was finally blued. It almost certainly happened at the factory. Now I just have to convince Remington of this. I hear they have poor customer service and will try to screw every customer out of every dime, but I have to be persistent.

I have never sent a rifle through the mail. Do you recommend that I get a hard case for the shipment, or can I use the box the gun came in? I assume a hard case is needed.

Joe
 

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Let Remington supply the box. They're accustomed to receiving guns packed a certain way. My advice is don't risk confusing them. It'll be sent back the same way.
 
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