Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm currently using Sierra 100 Gr GameKing SBTs but I'm curious if the Sierra 95 Gr HPBT MatchKing bullets would be noticeably more effective for heart / lung shots out to 300 metres.
Cheers, Ross.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,291 Posts
Well Ross, I think that would depend entirely on what you, or others, consider "effective". Do you want a bullet that penetrates a few inches and comes apart entirely, or do you want a bullet that penetrates a few inches, expands to 200% of its original diameter, but then passes completely through the animal? Are you hoping for spectacular kills where it seems the earth was yanked out from under the goat, or do you want very sure kills where the goat might run off 50 yards, but will expire with complete certainty?

If you want plan "B", stick with what you're using or go to a premium bullet like the Accubond, Partition or TSX. If you think plan "A" is perfect performance (and you're willing to risk an occasional surface wound where the animal suffers greatly, and for quite some time, before expiring) then go with the hollow-point.
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
36,668 Posts
How big do those goats get? How have the other bullets worked?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Broom-jm, I’ve been led to believe that in order to maximise a bullet’s overall performance it’s best to select those which have a high sectional density & ballistic coefficient – in addition to being ‘well constructed’. The latter is the basis of my query as I own a Browning B78 and firmly favour the concept of one shot humane kills – namely, without undue suffering.

Based on your appreciated reply the 95 Gr HPBT is out of the question. In turn, Nosler make a 6mm 100 Gr Partition Spitzer (which has the same S.D. as the Sierra 100 Gr GameKing SBT but its B.C. is slightly smaller) and unfortunately no Accubonds. Accordingly, bearing ‘construction’ differences in mind, which bullet might be potentially more ‘lethal,’ the Sierra SBT or Nosler Partition ?

MikeG, my biggest feral Billy to date was 34 inches, measured directly tip to tip, which really had me wondering how such animals so readily travel through thick scrub !? Apparently they can weigh up to about 70 kg or 155 lbs.

It’s normally lights out with a direct heart/lung shot using the Sierra 100 Gr SBT. Unfortunately, I sometimes miscalculate the trajectory & hold over at distances of 300 odd metres resulting in them being mortally wounded – rather upsetting and inconvenient as shots are often fired across deep & thick scrubby gullies. Hence my question about the most lethal type of bullet construction.

Also for consideration is the fact that there’s less knock down energy ‘out yonder’ for such game with the .243 and thus the long term notion of ultimately re-barrelling the old B78 (28-30 inch stainless, in either a 6.5x.284 or 6.5x55 AI) and thereafter possibly using Nosler Partition 125 Gr, Hornady SST 129 Gr or Nosler Accubond 130 Gr bullets when the accuracy of the original 26 inch barrel noticeably drops off. The joys of hunting & reloading !
Cheers, Ross.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,291 Posts
Joys indeed, Ross! :)

Based on your concerns when the distance is long and you miscalculate the trajectory and hold over, I'm not sure that a different bullet is going to solve anything. If your shot is not placed in the heart/lung region, or does not impact the central nervous system, the billy is going to be wounded, rather than killed immediately. Depending on where the bullet actually did strike, it may be a shot that ultimately kills or it may be a wound that lingers, causing the undo suffering that every hunter is duty bound to try and avoid. To that end, I commend you on being conscientious and concerned.

However, we're talking about a feral goat here...an invasive species and one that, if I'm not mistaken, is over-populated in parts of Oz? There isn't a bullet made that will always kill what it hits as though the target were struck with lightning. Even with perfectly-placed shots, some critters just have a greater tenacity for life than others, so there is nothing you can do to guarantee that one won't run a short distance after being solidly hit. The tales I've heard and witnessed myself, of big game animals with ghastly wounds, traveling hundreds of meters never cease to amaze me. I'm sure you've seen it yourself and wondered how that animal moved 5 meters, let alone 100 or more.

With all of that being said, your specific circumstances can be improved upon. The Sierra SBT bullet is one of the most accurate hunting bullets on the market, if not THE most accurate. Long before plastic tips became all the rage, those SBT's were shooting sub-MOA groups from sporter-weight barrels and making ordinary shooters feel like they were really accomplished! The problem is, those bullets are not ideal when it comes to ensuring good expansion at long range or of heavy enough construction, at very short distances. To be blunt, they can blow up at 20 yards and fail to open much at all, at 300 or more. At yardages in-between those two numbers, you'll probably get excellent terminal performance, but the goats aren't always so accommodating! ;)

A small caliber big game bullet needs to do but two things: It must expand to at least 1.5 times it's original diameter and it must not, under any circumstances, separate its core from the copper jacket, if so constructed. The Sierra SBT, for all of its wonderful accuracy, cannot be consistently relied upon to meet both of those goals. Fortunately, there are quite a few bullets on the market these days that will.

The Nosler Partition is foremost among these, primarily because it has been around the longest. The Remington Core-lokt also exhibits these traits and if it shoots with enough accuracy in your rifle, is absolutely the most cost effective big-game bullet on the market. In my experience, neither of these are "as" accurate as other options, but when you're hunting, you simply do not need much better than 1" groups at 100 yards. In many cases, 2" at 100 yards is perfectly adequate. The Partition is world-renowned for its ability to not come apart at point-blank range and still open up well and penetrate deeply, at great distances. If they are accurate enough and you restrict yourself to the range at which you are confident you can place a Partition where it needs to go, this is one bullet you can count on to always do its part in quickly and humanely dispatching a big game animal.

That brings us to the bullets which are typically just as accurate as the Sierra SBT, but do not compromise on terminal performance. Of these, the Nosler Ballistic Tip is a good product that was made considerably better when their jacket was redesigned, some years back. The original BT's, even the heavy-for-caliber options that Nosler touted for big-game hunting, had a jacket that was simply too thin and the base was not substantial enough. Those early BT's had a well-deserved reputation for blowing up on close-range shots, resulting in severely wounded game that would sometimes die (with tremendous meat loss) or live for hours/days, with horrific wounds. The new BT's for big game have incorporated a jacket that is not as thinly drawn and has a thicker, heavier base. In other words, they combined the best attributes of their Solid Base line, now cancelled, with the extremely accurate Ballistic Tip. If you still want extreme accuracy, with improved terminal performance, this is the bullet I'd go with.

In addition, there are options from Hornady (Interlock), Barnes (TSX and TTSX), Berger and others. I do not have personal experience with these, so I will refrain from commenting on them, other than to point out that some are lead-free, hence they have no core to separate from the jacket. Presuming the copper petals do not peel off too quickly, and a heavy section of the bullet remains intact to penetrate though-and-through, they should provide ideal terminal performance. Whether or not they actually do that, I cannot say, personally.

In closing, I would try a couple of these bullets and settle on one that will meet your needs for both accuracy and more reliable terminal performance. At the same time, be aware that even with the best bullet and a perfectly placed shot, you might occasionally get that sick feeling when a billy runs off a ways before expiring. That is just part of hunting. Good luck in finding a better bullet option and please do report back to us with your results! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,237 Posts
I've used that Sierra design from my .243's on and off for years. As hunting bullets for feral goat size game, out to 300yds, they are as good as any.

Sierra clearly states that their line of excellent match bullets are for shooting holes in paper, and specifically recommend against their use on animals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Broom-jm, sincere thanks for your very much appreciated detailed reply – something I frequently associate with the notably helpful & informed members of this fantastic forum – keep it up !

“We're talking about a feral goat here...an invasive species and one that, if I'm not mistaken, is over-populated in parts of Oz?” According to the following website you’ll find about 2.6 million of them grazing ‘Downunder’ (not to mention 7.2m foxes, 23m pigs, 18m cats and who knows how many Water Buffalo, camels, donkeys & brumbies/wild horses etc - thanks largely to the fact that, besides hunters, we have very few large & capable predators of controlling their ever increasing populations) –http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/portal.asp?p=Ferals1

In light of the Sierra SBT being apparently ‘unreliable’ at close and extended distances I’m inclined to trial the 100 Gr Nosler Partition over the slightly lighter & less efficient (regarding S.D. & B.C.) 95 Gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Note, 100 Gr Remington Core-Lokt sounds quite impressive but I like to reload rather than purchase ‘over the counter’ cartridges. In due course I’ll definitely let you know how ‘effective’ the Partition’s are at culling these hardy well adapted introduced game.

TMan, thanks for clarifying the following – “Sierra clearly states that their line of excellent match bullets are for shooting holes in paper, and specifically recommend against their use on animals”. Oddly, ‘hollow points’ are often used here for hunting varmints – such as roos, rabbits, foxes, feral cats etc.
Cheers, Ross.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,291 Posts
Broom-jm, sincere thanks for your very much appreciated detailed reply – something I frequently associate with the notably helpful & informed members of this fantastic forum – keep it up !

“We're talking about a feral goat here...an invasive species and one that, if I'm not mistaken, is over-populated in parts of Oz?” According to the following website you’ll find about 2.6 million of them grazing ‘Downunder’ (not to mention 7.2m foxes, 23m pigs, 18m cats and who knows how many Water Buffalo, camels, donkeys & brumbies/wild horses etc - thanks largely to the fact that, besides hunters, we have very few large & capable predators of controlling their ever increasing populations) –http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/portal.asp?p=Ferals1

In light of the Sierra SBT being apparently ‘unreliable’ at close and extended distances I’m inclined to trial the 100 Gr Nosler Partition over the slightly lighter & less efficient (regarding S.D. & B.C.) 95 Gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Note, 100 Gr Remington Core-Lokt sounds quite impressive but I like to reload rather than purchase ‘over the counter’ cartridges. In due course I’ll definitely let you know how ‘effective’ the Partition’s are at culling these hardy well adapted introduced game.

TMan, thanks for clarifying the following – “Sierra clearly states that their line of excellent match bullets are for shooting holes in paper, and specifically recommend against their use on animals”. Oddly, ‘hollow points’ are often used here for hunting varmints – such as roos, rabbits, foxes, feral cats etc.
Cheers, Ross.
You can also buy the 100gr Remington Core-lokt as a component, to handload yourself. If you find they are very accurate in your rifle, they will be the most cost-effective option for reliable performance on those WAY too abundant goats!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
We had a bunch of goats to kill a few years back because an old stoner was letting his get out and trample through the rice plantation. One day we killed nine, and every one was with a 55 grain Nosler ballistic tip. They were all inside of 200 yards and we used a .243 WSSM to launch them. Definitely some of the most instant kills I've seen. We found the bullet bases just under the skin on the off side. They looked like little coins. Judging by that, I'd say they would be a bit iffy at more range, and would be horrible if you hit a leg or the like. We also used a .22 L.R. with the Aguila sub-sonic 60 grainers, because we were curious a to how they worked. I couldn't believe it when my brother in law shot a goat with one and the goat behind it dropped too. They were both about 60-70 pounds. Our favorite bullet was the 85 grain partition loaded in the .243 WSSM. It hit hard, alway exited and was accurate. I have since started using them in my .243 for my blacktail hunting. You might give it a try. I had no trouble sending one through a mature blacktail at just over 300 yards. We used a few Barnes X bullets too, and they worked well enough, but nothing like the lead versions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,280 Posts
I see no need to shoot them with an expensive bullet, the Ballistic Tip is just fine. The Matchkings actually behave more like a FMJ, the "hollow" point is very small on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Broom-jm, I haven’t seen the 100 Gr Remington Core-Lokt projectiles on sale at my local Gun store so I’ll specifically ask if they can order them in for me. Otherwise I’ll stock up on the Nosler Partitions. Apparently there’s good money to be made from feral goats so, depending on the terrain & vegetation cover, it’s not uncommon for farmers to sometimes round them up for a bit of extra income. Maybe we could send a boat load or two over your way ! Otherwise it’s a case of mainly stalking them on foot – a rather challenging but rewarding means of endeavouring to reduce their WAY too abundant population.

Unclepaddy, I’ve never actually tried the Nosler Ballistic Tips but I assume that they would perform similar to my usual varmint bullets (Hornady 65, 75 & 87 Gr V-Max) which I use for feral cats, foxes and ‘tagged’ roos. You also appear strongly in favour of the Nosler Partitions – as noted above, I’m now really keen to trial them.
Cheers, Ross.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,291 Posts
It's a wonderful dilemma you have to deal with down there, Ross! :)

The Partitions will be very predictable in their performance, but the heavier (for caliber) Ballistic Tip bullets aren't likely to let you down, either. I would expect both of those (along with the Core-lokt) to provide better results on those occasional shots at 300 meters, or more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,237 Posts
TMan, thanks for clarifying the following – “Sierra clearly states that their line of excellent match bullets are for shooting holes in paper, and specifically recommend against their use on animals”. Oddly, ‘hollow points’ are often used here for hunting varmints – such as roos, rabbits, foxes, feral cats etc.
Cheers, Ross.
Ross, there's match HP's and hunting HP's. If you can find them on the other side of the world, the 85gr Sierra Gameking BTHP's would probably be a super goat bullet, if feral goats in your part of the world are the same size as goats I've seen, 20-30Kg's or so. There's quite a few folks in Montana and Wyoming that feel they are fine for antelope, (speed goats).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
If that 95gn HPBT by Sierra is one of their pinched nose design don't rely on it expanding much. The .257 cal 90s were that way as were a bunch of the older 30 cals they did not expand well either.

The bullet you are using now should continue to work well, it's too bad Sierra discontinued the 100gn semi spitzer flat base that would have been the ideal bullet for what you want.

There are many out there that will fill the job for your purpose most any whitetail recommended bullet should do the job, 300 meters is an easy task for most any bullet for the 6mm cartridges even the round nose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,312 Posts
Noticed this thread for five days before it occurred to me it ought to be "Advice Sought Regarding ..."
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
36,668 Posts
You know it occurs to me that this might be an ideal application for Ballistic Tips. The goats aren't all that large, and you'd surely get good expansion.

Food for thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
TMan, thanks again for clarifying the fact that there’s different types of hollow point projectiles. Namely, those suitable for ‘punching holes in paper’ Vs hunting game. As previously noted, our feral goats can weigh up to about 70 Kg’s so scoring a solid hit at 300m with a 85 Gr Sierra GameKing BTHP would be quite a feat. I can see myself doing a lot of comparative reloading & hunting now that I’ve got such a wide range of different pills to carefully consider – lucky me !

‘Eagle eyes’ Rocky Raab, congratulations for picking up my misused word. Homonyms and the English language – don’t you just love it !

MikeG, bearing in mind their similar bullet construction, am I right in thinking that the Nosler Ballistic Tips would be as effective as my current varmint projectiles, Hornady V-Max ? In hindsight, there are so many factors to seriously consider when selecting the most ‘effective’ projectile for humanely culling different types of game over various distances. The joys of hunting.
Cheers, Ross.
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
36,668 Posts
I don't have any basis for comparison, sorry. Just something to think about - hey it's good to have a target-rich environment to try these things!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
MikeG, we certainly are blessed in having a wide range of introduced game to hunt. Similarly, considering the fact that we have few native predators capable of effectively controlling their numbers, it's largely up to responsible hunters to help out. Life's hard !!

Thanks again to all for your much appreciated advice. Fantastic.
Cheers, Ross.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top