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Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
Jbelk;
Thank You! You summed up what I'm doing precisely.
I totally see the Tenon concept for attaching the tip to the stock. That would add strength of the Tenon tongue and a large bearing surface to use adhesive on. You just have to have the proper tools to create a Tenon and Mortise. That, not everyone is going to have. A blind box Tenon as would be needed in this case is even more difficult. I don't have a router table to do Tenon and Mortise nor a proper drill press.
My having carved the tip while it was still originally attached makes it even more difficult.
Beings the end grains can't be glued together for strength you have to supply some form of pillar bracing. Screws, wood dowels whatever. The hydraulic issue is only pertinent if you were to overload the Fluid(glue). That would cause the fluid to spread all over the place anyway which is what you would be trying to avoid.
The idea of using a rod with a point on it to align the holes you would need has merit. That would be a good way to align the holes. That in turn would help you not have to over bore the holes as much.
By using dowels you eliminate the worry of the Gorilla glue preventing the two parts adhering to one another. The holes would be your contact points.

I've already figured a work around for the clamping issue. I can get a solid hold.
 

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30x68-- A blind tenon in buffalo horn only uses a brace and bit for the blind hole in the horn and a careful, sharp chisel for the tenon, but you have the idea. With mortise and tenon or any kind of 'bridge' like dowels, sheer strength is added to the equation as well as an internal 'splint' that ties the parts together.

I can't help but grin and the thought of an amateur trying to do something with buffalo horn with a Dremel tool. :) It smells like burning toe-nails and like a skunk, seems to never go away. It has to be cut slow with hand tools like ivory.
 

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I see it now. A blind tenon is best (with yellow glue on the tenon). That gives you the perpendicular grain glue surface you're looking for.
 

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I've never tried the yellow glues on horn, ivory or tropical woods. I settled on Conap K-22 very early and never had a reason to switch. The art knife makers are now using superglue on most everything. 'Using' knife makers are still building with epoxy.

Here is my Hoffman .375 fore-end tip. In the sunlight, the wood tenon can be seen inside. This gun was built in 1922 and stocked by John Dubiel who was Holland and Holland's head stocker until hired away by Hoffman Arms. This gun has taken African and Asian dangerous game and was used pretty hard.
 

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So Jack when you say the mortise was bored with a brace it must be round huh ? If so then the tenon is the same - round. This would not do on many applications where alignment is partially supported by the corners of the tenon in the mortise. With a singular big round tenon looking like a dowel shear loads could rupture the shoulder glue bond and the piece could easily rotate. One reason your finest entry doors utilized the square cornered mortise and tenon since it not only prevents joint separation creep but keeps rails and stile flat. Chairs use this same mechanical advantage and chairs take serious abuse. Luckily forearm noses on gun stocks don't get that type of torsional shear load regularly- if at all.

CONAP epoxies are good products but Cytex is formulating these no different than any good epoxy chemist. With horn I'm thinking the bond surface profile must be similar to plastic - no ? If so there are some really good adhesives that work with dissimilar materials like wood and steel or plastic and steel etc. Called Methacrylates they will make the connection and are quite easy to use. I've had mixed results with trying to bond some plastics using epoxies and find I need to create some tooth profile for help or solvent to break down the surface a bit. However substances like horn or ivory could very well be different animals altogether - no pun intended.

With resinous tropical woods, which we use in the boat building trades a lot, there are several procedures used to insure a decent bond. Solvent washes using acetone, MEK or perhaps lacquer thinner will remove surface oils. But often lock joint designs, a acrylic sealer wash or mechanical help is needed. No more Gaboon ebony I'm afraid unless you got a stash but this was not a hard wood to glue up really except end grain which is pretty much non-absorbent. The true Brazilian rosewoods, original Burma teak and even Long Leaf yellow pine from Georgia was much more resinous.

Always enjoyable
 

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OP said he used a lighter shaded piece of walnut . Probably the best reason for squared (flat-sided) tenons is to maximize proper grain oriented glue area. A rounded peg has less area. Plus, a squared or flat-sided tenon will not twist like a peg or dowel would. Better yet would be two blind mortise and tenons, side by side. Once again... yellow glue.
 

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The barrel locks the fore-end tip from rotating but the point is to get a sheer joint as well as a butt joint to greatly increase surface area and reduce stress in several directions. I've had this Hoffman apart and can see part of the tenon exposed in the barrel channel so I'm going to extrapolate a dimension of the tenon being an inch long and 3/4" in dameter. If two thirds of it is in horn, it gives 1.5 square inches of glue joint in shear and about the same in tension. The increase in glue joint total would be about 80%. I'm sure this Hoffman was put on with hide glue. I've never seen one of this period that wasn't. I have had several 'pre-cut' fore-ends from Buff horn. They're part of a flattened slab that is sawed roughly 1 1/2x 1 3/4 x 2 inches long.

I'm too old to start trying new adhesives. I've never had a returned knife for handle failure and don't want to risk it at this stage of the game. I've had to take my knife handles off before---the last stage is burning the epoxy still stuck to the tang off with a propane torch while wire brushing.

I use K-22 as mixed which is a cold STP viscosity when I want pure adhesion and space fill up to about .010" The file work in the knife picture is about a big a space as ever called on. Used as a filler as in cactus stems or coral, I use microbeads or SS powder from Brownell's.
The black color makes it pretty clear where you brushed up against it too. It makes a mess of shoe laces...
 

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Just to share my experience. If your looking for a easy quick fix to a cracked stock (havent tried on a broken one) but i used gorilla super glue. It worked for an old stevens visible loader.
 

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Redtail--- JB Weld has SS filler in it and is TERRIBLE for wood. Great for other stuff, though.
 

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You folks would figure this out a lot quicker if you listen to what anyone else has to say. See post #28
I missed what you saw until just recently - I think we all did. It just never occurred to me that he was attempting a foreend cap using a lighter shade of Walnut. Maybe had he said ebony or horn or something it would have clicked. I read his post several times but just kept picturing some kind of scab to the side of the buttstock for a cheek piece or other buildup or something. Good eye Lilysdad.
 

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Of course it can be. So can lizard spit but it doesn't mean it's for repairing stocks or attaching parts to one. J-B Weld is a metallic filler epoxy.
 

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Of course it can be. So can lizard spit but it doesn't mean it's for repairing stocks or attaching parts to one. J-B Weld is a metallic filler epoxy.
Didn't say it was for repairing stocks, just responding to your comment that it is TERRIBLE for wood.
 

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When glueing together guns you might be aware that glues may have low meiting points. If the glue joint gets two hot it may fail. Bubba's front sight he glued on gun fell off during rapid fire.
 

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Regular Accra Glass for wood fixes, no filler. Go to the hobby shop for slow cure epoxy and use the Accra Glass stains, it all matches.
I made all my furniture with Gorilla glue and much with water proof Tite Bond. Yellow Tite bond is good stuff.
Clamping right is hard with funny shapes. Pins, dowels and any thing to increase glue surface is best. Fit is needed so there is no line to see. Fore end tips are made large to start and glued on, then taken to dimensions.
 

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White glue like Elmer's is not good with heat. Building airplane wings to cover with wood had me coating both sides with white glue. Let it dry. Clamp it and heat it activated the glue for a bond. But it can not stand moisture.
Any glue needs clamped so never look for a filler to hide a gap.
Brings back memories when checkering a punky side of a stock. Wood frayed so I soaked with super glue. Then lose a diamond anyway. Accra Glass at the loss and cut again, stain the glue. I defy anyone to find it. Glue is your friend. Fit is up to you.
Fore end tips make gray hair. Angled wood is evil, it needs a dove tail or pins.
 

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Hey guys, a friend just had the walnut stock on his Ruger 77 .308 split sitting in the safe(!) It's about 30 yrs. old, well cared-for, and his house has normal humidity. He sent me pictures, and it seems to start on the bottom near the front of the magazine floorplate and come forward and up the right side to beside the barrel just in front of the front sight. I'm guessing it originated by the front action screw and just followed the grain (?). I'm wondering if it's been over-tightened over the years, or maybe just a crack that grew. It's the mannlicher style, and he likes it and would rather repair than replace it, I'm sure.

He'll bring it next week when we get together and hunt (muzzleloading) a few days. I do some woodwork, I've got some good quality yellow tite-bond wood glue. What's the best way to clamp it up- rubber bands, painter's tape, padded clamps?
 
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