Shooters Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Have you seen the new products from Remington? Wow!

-Shorter range slugs for rifled shotguns! Seems the game departments of several states have figured out that some sabot slug loads have a danger range equal or greater than some centerfire rifles. Imagine that!

-High capacity fighting semi-auto assault shotguns! Eight rounds! Does this - could it really - mean civilians can now buy law enforcement shotguns and the weird dimples will disappear from the .12 bore family 870, 1100, 1187! Oh I can't bear the thought - extention magazines for the 870 Express!

-What will happen next? Maybe Big Green will begin printing the maximum danger range information on ammunition boxes. Even for slug rounds!

- Perhaps Big Green has finally seen the 2nd Amendment light. Will they challenge the unconstitutional "Section 4181 Taxes" Pittman Roberts Act excise tax on firearms and ammunition. Imagine, a gun company fighting differential taxation on a constitutionally protected product. Just like the newspaper industry challenged special taxes on newsprint! (See Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Commissioner of Revenue, 460 U.S. 575 (1983)

The Second Amendment is not about Duck Hunting! See http://shadeslanding.com/firearms/als.v1.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,150 Posts
Ralph McLaney,

Just for your information, Pittmann-Robertson was passed at the instigation of the hunting community many years ago with the specific intent that those funds would be used explicitly for conservation purposes. While what you say about a differential tax being illegal would normally be true, this one was passed at the request of the body which would be taxed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the only tax of which I am aware that the people have requested be imposed on them. This is the best example of the republinan form of government working for the people.

Just in case anyone reading this objects to that last sentence, the United States is a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy, in spite of what the Democratic party wishes were true. And, thank GOD for this, if we were a Democracy and subject to the whims of public opinion, our Constitutional Rights, and not just the 2nd Ammendment, would have been gone many years ago!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Hunting and the 2nd Amendment

Alk8944,

This year will mark the 66th anniversary of the passage of the 1937 vintage excise tax on guns and ammunition. Yes, I am aware that the tax was and has been supported by the shooting sports community (and later the archery and fishing constituancy.) The fact that this tax on the wholesale price of firearms, (10% on handguns & 11% on other firearms), has funded wildlife restoration, hunter education and too few shooting ranges has nothing to do with whether it meets constitutional muster.

If we indeed hold the individual rights interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to be true, we must accord that right the full measure of protections provided other rights under the Constitution. Thus if newsprint and computers cannot be subject to differential treatmet with special taxes, (as opposed to generally applicable taxes), then firearms and ammunition may not be subject to special taxation.

It matters not that the tax is benign or even beneficial to the constituency singled out for a special tax on a civil right. If an excise tax on guns and ammunition that benefits shooters and the shooting sports industry is constitutional then excise taxes for other "good reasons" can be justifiably added. Would the shooting sports community object to another 10 or 20% tax to defray the cost of treating gunshot victims at public hospitals?

The whole point of constitutional protections is to remove these areas from the "vicitudes of political debate." I have no problem with hunters paying for wildlife restoration or shooters for ranges. However, the venue of excise taxes on guns and ammunition is one that could become a direct threat to the civil right to bear arms. The same could not be said of excise taxes on tree-stands, ATVs, or camoflage clothing.

The popularity of programs funded under the Pittman-Robertson Act creates a "blind side" in protection of 2nd Amendment rights. The Supreme Court has already concluded about the 1st Amendment "...that differential taxation that selectively burdens the exercise of a fundamental right is impermissable." (John Snyder 1999 - see http://www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/als.v1.html )

I believe we should support the same standard for the fundamental right to bear arms.
 

·
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
Joined
·
23,959 Posts
Hey, Ralph -

Wanna talk about unfair taxes?

Have you looked closely at your phone bill, lately????? Take a good gander at all the excise and special intrests taxes on that piece of good news and tell me what ya think! A WWI wartime tax that was never relinquished and the demo-crats tacked on the "Al Gore" tax a decade ago to make sure everyone has access to the internet. Then, the states, counties and cities all jump in and add their slice of the pie.

Guess I'll keep paying the Pittman/Robertson tax on my guns and ammo, figuring that at least it is one tax doing some personal good, rather than a bunch of porkbarrel stuff like that on the phone bill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,623 Posts
Off taxes and back to the Big Green- Did you see the syntheic stocked nickeled 7400? Mariner rifle verison the guys in Alaska I bet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Reloads and taxes

The Pittman/Robertson Act taxes do not apply to reloading supplies. For example, you have a commercial reloader load YOUR brass,(supplied by you,) no excise tax is paid.

Yes we will go on paying the tax as part of the price of new guns and ammo because it is paid on the manufacturers level. No consumer can challenge this law in court as he or she did not directly pay the tax and thus has no standing to sue. The only chance for a removal of this potentially damaging tax on our civil right is for a manufacturer to sue for return of taxes paid. Big Green, Winchester, Ruger, et al are not going to take a chance on biting the hunters hand that feeds them.

Looking at new products from Remington that dealers are not supposed to sell to ordinary citizens. How about the new parkerized model 760 patrol rifles. These would be perfect hog hunting guns: Ghost ring rear sights, tritium big dot front sights,and 16 inch barrels. These .308 rifles are marked "For Law Enforcement Use Only," so don't expect your dealer to be willing to risk his wholesale source to get one for you.:(
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top