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Discussion Starter #1
Wondering if anyone has used anti-camming Phillips screwdrivers or bits to compare them with "regular" drivers/bits for gunsmithing? A couple bucks extra, no problem, but do they really prevent stripping out the screw head? Can't buy them at Lowes, but Brownells has them.
 

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I think you're talking about 'Torx' head screws. They're great for those that can't run a screwdriver.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not torx

No, not Torx. These are Phillips with tiny grooves on the 4 fin faces (like ruffles potato chips) to allegedly grip the screw better.
 

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A proper screwdriver will twist the head off a fillister-head screw and more scopes have been collapsed by 'better' screws than by rolling horses. It sounds like the perfect solution to a non-problem, to me.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I guess you'll have to go to Brownells and see them for yourself. I wasn't talking about rolling horses or scopes. I was talking about drivers and bits. I guess you haven't tried them, but if anyone has, I'd be interested in hearing your review.
 

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I have some, don't recall if they are SnapOn or Vermont American??, they do work a little better, I think the quality of the screw has more to do with it than the bit?, a soft screw is going to deform with any real force against it, I've sheared off SnapOn Philips bits using an impact driver trying to get the retaining screws out of Honda rotors!
 

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The mention of the fins on the screw face makes me wonder if you are referring to Posi-drive? They look like a philips but aren't interchangeable.

If something else, guess I have no experience with them.
 

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I have a Snap-On driver like you are talking about. Is a #2 and it works fine. I won't rate it up there with canned beer or anything, but it just seems to fit #2 screw heads good and I like it.
 

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I have bits and screws call a tri wing or something, Aircraft stuff that you can tighten but not remove without a horse on top of the driver. Honda motorcycles had such soft screws they could not be removed by hand so an impact driver was needed or the head would skid out. I have the screw remover bits that bite.

Bits with ridges sounds like a good idea. They are on the bit, not the screws. Building with Phillips heads drives me nuts anyway even with a screw gun. I ruin more screw heads. Easiest are dry wall screws since there is less pressure. Deck screws are junk. I bought the most expensive and they rust away so boards pop up and I can snap a new screw.

Phillips heads are not used on guns anyway unless under a recoil pad, they are ugly and I prefer slots timed to line up. If the only screw I have to replace one on a gun is a Phillips, I make my own screw.

I even have bags of Browning A5 screws left. Many Ruger screws. A gun screw must have a slot.

Brownells sells a screw assortment with every thread size but beware, they are butter soft. The scope screw assortment is as good as it get though.

What busts my butt is when a guy Loc Tites ring screws.
 

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When I have a Phillips head fastener that is worn and slips I use a bit of BonAmi scouring powder. Just enough traction to keep the driver in place. Then I replace the fastener if at all possible.
 

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Cross Recess or Cross point fasteners come in more than one variety, and proper Phillips type is only one of them.
Then there is also the wide strength and Quality problems in fastener manufacture.
A very well specified fastener is much better than most minimal specified fasteners for almost all uses.
I have experienced both ends of the range of quality, from "Unnamed Asian sourced" screws that had soft heads and poor head to shank attach strength up to NAS aerospace quality screws that ate drive bits and did not show damage.

Posi-drive type bits are also not designed to fit a true Phillips recess but will work if care is taken.
Phillips drive Bits also do not fit Reed & Prince recess heads and will 'chew the screw recess up if forced.
Reed & Prince drive bits seem to fail by stripping the Bit if used on Phillips or Posi-drive recess screw heads.

Also be cautious of mixing up Spline, Hex, Torx, and several other forms of recess and drive bits.

Chev. William
 

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I built my entire house with Torx head fasteners and two cordless drills. Some 60 lbs of screws and lag bolts. I love them because they stick to the bit. Most of mine were driven by spiking it into position one-handed while mounted on the bit in the drill.
GUNS on the other hand, take fasteners that only NEED a simple slotted, fillister-head screw. Extra torque is a bad thing! Redfield found that out by going to Allen-head screws on scope rings and mounts so they went against convention and used SOFT screws so the head would strip before collapsing the scope tube. Torx head screws in Talley rings and mounts, and others, are SO strong and slip-proof that gun parts are damaged as a result.

If you NEED something more than a slotted head screw, it shows a lack of skill or maybe the proper tools. Every gunsmith has seen screws buggered up by electrician's screw-drivers. For those folks, its a good idea to dictate tools.
 

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Torx head fasteners seem to almost "pull" the drill in. That and one-handed operation from a drill sure makes them a good pick from a ladder and other awkward positions.

All fasteners need drivers that fit the head to be dealt with properly. Pliers, multi-tools, and vise-grips are intended for "need it now, but don't have tools" situations.

Personally, I think fillister/ slotted head fasteners should be left behind for the enemy to deal with and made illegal for use in the USA without a permit.
I'm not in-charge of such things though.
 

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"Slotted Screws" are probably close to the Oldest design of Screw drive technology.
Fillister heads ARE useful today regardless of their Drive recess.
Look in a good guide like 'Machinery Handbook" to see many designs for Cap Screw heads and the Varied Drive systems developed for use with Cap Screws.
Chev. William
 

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Not to mention the JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) type of Phillips slots. I'm not aware of any gun makers that use them but the amount of hardware imported may have lead to them being used.
 

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"Slotted Screws" are probably close to the Oldest design of Screw drive technology.
Fillister heads ARE useful today regardless of their Drive recess.

You "read" to be well educated on the subject Chevwilliam. I'm not. Can you think of anything in particular that a Fillister or slotted head will do better than any other design?
 

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You "read" to be well educated on the subject Chevwilliam. I'm not. Can you think of anything in particular that a Fillister or slotted head will do better than any other design?
In Aviation, and especially antique Aviation, the Steel Alloy Fillister Head Slotted and Drilled cap screws are used to fasten light alloy components together.
In general the Alloy parts will strip out if over-torquing is attempted.
A few applications used Alloy Aluminum Fillister head cap screws for reduced weight.
The aviation Torque Specifications save most slotted head from damage anyway.
Howard Hughes specified that all Screw Slot s on his racing aircraft be aligned with the slip stream to reduce drag.

Automotive applications were limited as the Lesser Standards used in Manufacture made for more damaged heads with slotted Fasteners.

Defense Electronics liked Stainless Alloy steel fasteners with Cross recess drive systems to reduce slipping of the drive bit and resulting marring of adjacent panel finishes.
More of an 'aesthetics' problem at final inspection. Too Costly if a Government Final Inspection were failed due to finish marring or damaged fasteners.

Besides, over torquing a Printed Circuit Board Attach fastener could crush the printed circuit board Material inviting a future electrical failure.

Pre-WW2 assembled DC Power Switchboards I have viewed used Fillister Head Slotted Fasteners to attach monitoring components to the Insulating mounting boards.
Actual Heavy Current components were bolted with Hex head Cap Screws and Nuts.

Sadly, some fine examples of this construction no longer Exist as they were demolished in 're-purposing' of Paramount studios Power Plants One and Two. Plants three And four had been revised before I was hired at the studio, changing out most or all of the original AC to DC converter and distribution to modern solid state converters and enclosed Switch gear. Now the conversion from DC Studio and Stage Lighting to AC Studio and Stage Lighting has been almost completed.

Studios used DC to power Lighting to avoid flicker when producing Movies.
Modern High Frequency Arc Discharge Lighting removes this concern.

Chev. William
 

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Phillips head was originally designed for flat head fasteners like door hinges and strike plates. General Motors was one of the first to adopt them. With today's cold forging techniques and equipment, Torx, Square and electrical combo screw heads can be made as easily as Allen-head.
Making the TOOLS are more expensive, though.
 
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