Any .308 pet loads?
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Try either Varget or IMR-4064 with a CCI 200 primer (I use Winchester brass). I won't mention charge weights as you should always work up.
These are my two exclusive .308 powders. In fact, Varget is based off of 4064 with a few more goodies added in. In my X-Bolt, at the pressures I'm running, these two powders are interchangeable with the Varget being a little less temperature sensitive.
These are my two exclusive .308 powders. In fact, Varget is based off of 4064 with a few more goodies added in. In my X-Bolt, at the pressures I'm running, these two powders are interchangeable with the Varget being a little less temperature sensitive.
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My long-time (and I'm talking 40 years) standard deer load is 47.0 W748 under the Hornady 150 spirepoint. WLR primer and either mil or commercial brass. That load is under max in commercial cases, and near max in mil brass.
My local police department trains sniper/SWAT teams. The head instructor wanted to find a practice load that duplicated the superb Federal Gold Medal Match. He came up with Fed brass, Fed 210 primers, 41.0 IMR4064 and the Sierra 168 Matchking. It's a very good load. VERY good.
My local police department trains sniper/SWAT teams. The head instructor wanted to find a practice load that duplicated the superb Federal Gold Medal Match. He came up with Fed brass, Fed 210 primers, 41.0 IMR4064 and the Sierra 168 Matchking. It's a very good load. VERY good.
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388 Posts
Thanks Rocky,
That 4064 load sounds very interesting! I've got everything to duplicate it, including the use of Federal brass but no 210 primers. I've got CCI-200, Rem 9-1/2 and WLR. Isn't Federal's 210 primer considered a hotter primer? ...close to a WLR, maybe?
That 4064 load sounds very interesting! I've got everything to duplicate it, including the use of Federal brass but no 210 primers. I've got CCI-200, Rem 9-1/2 and WLR. Isn't Federal's 210 primer considered a hotter primer? ...close to a WLR, maybe?
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Of those, I think I'd go with the CCI200 and then the Rem 9½ if the CCI doesn't cluster them in tightly enough. The WLR is quite hot. The Fed 210 is a sensitive primer, but only a bit hotter than the other two.
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The only primer test I've seen isn't recent, but it's here. It agrees with Rocky on a choice for milder, and KVB (Wolf and Tula) were even milder. It suggest the Federal was closest to the Remington 9 1/2, but had almost half the standard deviation. The CCI200BR is another possibility from the chart. The KVB is quite impressive on SD, but lots of folks complain they are hard to seat.
Also have a look at these flame shots, though I'm not sure that tells you anything about pressure. Fuel content maybe (see this primer on primers).
I pulled a bunch of Federal GM with 168 grain SMK's once about 10 years ago. It contained 43.5 grains of IMR 4064. They claim 2650 fps from a 24" barrel, and this is one of those instances in which QuickLOAD, with 57.0 grains of case water capacity (my Federal cases) seems to be about on the mark, predicting 2648 fps and 52,600 psi in a tight chamber.
For Rocky's 41.0 grain load it shows 44,350 psi, but that may be low (see pressure behavior below). I would suggest running a 30 shot round robin between 40.7 grains and 43.4 grains to see what your rifle likes. Depending on its chamber size, it should find something favorable in there.
The QL model does not take odd pressure responses into effect and 4064 may be a bit odd, and Rocky's load may run a bit warmer than shown. In the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, Dave Milosovich presents and experiment in which 4064 seems to have special pressure immunity. Comparing it to 4895 as to the amount needed to achieve a given velocity from a 180 grain bullet in a match rifle (24" tube), he had:
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This shows less 4064 needed for 2200 fps, indicating it is the faster of the two powders, while 2500 fps and up show it takes more, indicating it is the slower of the two powders (assuming same energy content per unit weight). This would explain (to my mind) why it is a popular accuracy powder, as that behavior would make it less temperature sensitive and more tolerant of small charge errors than most.
Also have a look at these flame shots, though I'm not sure that tells you anything about pressure. Fuel content maybe (see this primer on primers).
I pulled a bunch of Federal GM with 168 grain SMK's once about 10 years ago. It contained 43.5 grains of IMR 4064. They claim 2650 fps from a 24" barrel, and this is one of those instances in which QuickLOAD, with 57.0 grains of case water capacity (my Federal cases) seems to be about on the mark, predicting 2648 fps and 52,600 psi in a tight chamber.
For Rocky's 41.0 grain load it shows 44,350 psi, but that may be low (see pressure behavior below). I would suggest running a 30 shot round robin between 40.7 grains and 43.4 grains to see what your rifle likes. Depending on its chamber size, it should find something favorable in there.
The QL model does not take odd pressure responses into effect and 4064 may be a bit odd, and Rocky's load may run a bit warmer than shown. In the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, Dave Milosovich presents and experiment in which 4064 seems to have special pressure immunity. Comparing it to 4895 as to the amount needed to achieve a given velocity from a 180 grain bullet in a match rifle (24" tube), he had:
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Code:
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Powder
IMR 4895 37.0 gr 38.5 gr 40.0 gr 41.5 gr
IMR 4064 35.9 gr 38.0 gr 40.1 gr 42.2 gr 44.4 gr[/FONT]
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Great info UncleNick!
I am wondering about one issue with regards to barrel length of my rifle. This is a new Ruger Hawkeye that I cut the barrel down to 20" for a handier hunting length. Federal power-shok 150gr loads clocked right at 2700fps.
My starting handloads with Sierra's 150gr Pro-Hunter spitzer, with a 2.750", COL clocked;
2515fps for 41.5gr of H-4895 w/CCI-200
2525fps for 44.0gr of W-748 w/WLR
Rocky's suggestion of 47gr of W-748 would figure to be right about 2,700fps out of my short, 20" tube, equaling the factory stuff.
I friend gave me a box of Sierra 168 MatchKings , I read that they usually do best between 2500 and 2600fps. If this is true I may have to push them a bit closer to max level loads to get into that velocity range with my short barrel?
I am wondering about one issue with regards to barrel length of my rifle. This is a new Ruger Hawkeye that I cut the barrel down to 20" for a handier hunting length. Federal power-shok 150gr loads clocked right at 2700fps.
My starting handloads with Sierra's 150gr Pro-Hunter spitzer, with a 2.750", COL clocked;
2515fps for 41.5gr of H-4895 w/CCI-200
2525fps for 44.0gr of W-748 w/WLR
Rocky's suggestion of 47gr of W-748 would figure to be right about 2,700fps out of my short, 20" tube, equaling the factory stuff.
I friend gave me a box of Sierra 168 MatchKings , I read that they usually do best between 2500 and 2600fps. If this is true I may have to push them a bit closer to max level loads to get into that velocity range with my short barrel?
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QuickLOAD put your first load at 2520 fps and 41,700 psi with the default powder model. For 748, I have three models. One is the default, one I worked out for some load and pressure data of my own, and one is simply half way between the two. The burning rate differences in Winchester seems to be a bit greater than some other brands. I don't know whether it's just that the ball process is harder to control. At any rate, the inbetween model matched your measure performance pretty well. The latter also gave 2520 fps, and almost an even 40,000 psi. Given the velocity and the energy level, that shouldn't be too far off. With that same 748 model, Rocky's load is predicted to get 2697 fps in your gun and barrel length at 48,800 psi. It will be interesting to hear what you actually measure?
If I play with Chris Long's optimum barrel time numbers, I get 45.2 and 47.2 grains as being on timing sweet spots, so you might search in that range. For H4895 it's giving 42.6 and 44.7 grains. For IMR 4064 I get 42.9 45.0 grains. Those are all well within Hodgdon's listed maximums for Winchester cases, but should be safe for other cases, as well. Your exact fired case size will determine actual finals, but based on the predictions from your gathered data, I may be fairly close. Anyway, work up from low to high and see what you get by way of results.
If I play with Chris Long's optimum barrel time numbers, I get 45.2 and 47.2 grains as being on timing sweet spots, so you might search in that range. For H4895 it's giving 42.6 and 44.7 grains. For IMR 4064 I get 42.9 45.0 grains. Those are all well within Hodgdon's listed maximums for Winchester cases, but should be safe for other cases, as well. Your exact fired case size will determine actual finals, but based on the predictions from your gathered data, I may be fairly close. Anyway, work up from low to high and see what you get by way of results.
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Several tens of years ago I ran tests of primers. I used known accuracy loads in .308 Win and in the .223, changing only the primer. I ranked primers in order of the velocity produced, averaged from 20 shots. (It was so long ago, I have no record of the loads used or the velocities, only the resultant rankings. Here they are from hottest at the top down to coolest:
Large Rifle
F215
WLRM
CCI 250
R 9½M
WLR
F210
CCIBR/CCI200 (tie)
R 9½
Small Rifle
F205
R7½
WSRM
F200
WSR
CCIBR4/CCI400 (tie)
R 6½
I didn't do any pistol primers, and can't say whether the results I got then would be the same if the tests were repeated - which I have no intention of doing even if I could find samples of all those primers today.
Large Rifle
F215
WLRM
CCI 250
R 9½M
WLR
F210
CCIBR/CCI200 (tie)
R 9½
Small Rifle
F205
R7½
WSRM
F200
WSR
CCIBR4/CCI400 (tie)
R 6½
I didn't do any pistol primers, and can't say whether the results I got then would be the same if the tests were repeated - which I have no intention of doing even if I could find samples of all those primers today.
My rifle really likes 43.0 grains of I4895 under the 168 MKs lit off by fed 210s. But that's my rifle and yours will probably like something different. I arrived at this recipe by using the round robin method of load development using many different components and combinations of components. Also tweaking the seating depth and torque on the action screws with different loads.
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I really like 44 grains of Varget under a 168 grain Sierra BTHP. It is very accurate. According to my manual this is 2 grains off max but as always, you should work up to this load and watch for pressure signs. I use CCI LR primers exclusively since their the only ones my local shop seems to keep on the shelf. I suggested this load to a buddy of mine who just bought a 308 a few months ago and he has had excellent accuracy out of it also.
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388 Posts
Great info, guys!
Doing some math... 43.5gr of IMR-4064 behind Sierra's 168MK should get me around 2525fps in my 20" barrel. I'll probably start with 41.0gr and work up towards 43.5gr but probably not beyond since that's 1/10 past Sierra's max.
Curiously, Hodgdon shows a considerably higher max of 45.9gr with the same 168gr MK than Sierra does but Sierra's data is using Federal brass which, I believe, UncleNick, you said was thicker than the Winchester brass that Hodgdon's data is using? Assuming the metallurgy is similar, this would mean that it's thicker with less capacity? Both state that they're using Federal's 210M primer.
Doing some math... 43.5gr of IMR-4064 behind Sierra's 168MK should get me around 2525fps in my 20" barrel. I'll probably start with 41.0gr and work up towards 43.5gr but probably not beyond since that's 1/10 past Sierra's max.
Curiously, Hodgdon shows a considerably higher max of 45.9gr with the same 168gr MK than Sierra does but Sierra's data is using Federal brass which, I believe, UncleNick, you said was thicker than the Winchester brass that Hodgdon's data is using? Assuming the metallurgy is similar, this would mean that it's thicker with less capacity? Both state that they're using Federal's 210M primer.
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123 Posts
lol... funny you say that...
I was reluctant to post my load, so you did it for me! That is my exact load.
Pet loads for good groups for me:
1) 150 gr BTSP Hornady #3033 moly,.308 LC or WW brass, 44.9 gr surplus bulk
IMR4895 that acts more like H322, 2.995" [2950 fps 22" barrel] ~65kpsi
2) 110 gr Vmax moly .308 LC or WW brass, 44.9 gr surplus bulk IMR4895 that
acts more like H322, 2.815"
[2950 fps 22" barrel], and the reason that is all the powder I put in is because that is all that will fit in the military brass, the WW has room for another 4 gr.
~ 43kpsi
1) 150 gr BTSP Hornady #3033 moly,.308 LC or WW brass, 44.9 gr surplus bulk
IMR4895 that acts more like H322, 2.995" [2950 fps 22" barrel] ~65kpsi
2) 110 gr Vmax moly .308 LC or WW brass, 44.9 gr surplus bulk IMR4895 that
acts more like H322, 2.815"
[2950 fps 22" barrel], and the reason that is all the powder I put in is because that is all that will fit in the military brass, the WW has room for another 4 gr.
~ 43kpsi
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150 Posts
I have had good results in my Savage Model 10 .308
Nosler Custom Comp 168 gr
IMR 4895 @ 43.6 gr
Federal Brass
WLR Primer
COL 2.860
This load shoots well in MY GUN, and shows no signs of pressure in MY GUN.
I am interested to see if this load will shoot good out of my new Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine.
Nosler Custom Comp 168 gr
IMR 4895 @ 43.6 gr
Federal Brass
WLR Primer
COL 2.860
This load shoots well in MY GUN, and shows no signs of pressure in MY GUN.
I am interested to see if this load will shoot good out of my new Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine.
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5,449 Posts
I'm surprised no one threw BL-C2 in that mix. (Not that it's much different than W748 in most applications).
It worked quite well in a M1A I had for a while, and was very good in a M700V with Sierra Match Kings.
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