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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

My defensive handloads, should I decide to carry them on a regular basis, will be made up of Remington brass (new), Winchester LPP, and Remington 230gn standard HP seated at about 1.235" COL over a load of 5.2gn Bullseye.

Given that I keep forgetting to pick up a chronograph, I'm wondering if someone might give me a real world velocity guesstimate from a 5" 1911 barrel?

Thank you,

Josh
 

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In reality, handloads for defense can cause you legal troubles if you use them. Many handgun legal experts reccommend factory ammo for defense so the lawyers can't paint you as someone looking to kill or maim with "special" loads.
 

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Many legal experts do recommend that, but Joshua's other thread has covered that in some detail, here.


Joshua,

You are running an energy level about equivalent to military hard ball. If that were round ball seated to 1.270', I would expect you to see something on the order of 870 fps from a tight test barrel chamber. Individual gun chamber variables, though, and could make it fall anywhere between 830 and 880 fps.

Typical hardball is about .65" long, so it seats about 0.283" into the case. Seating deeper raises pressure and velocity. I don't have your bullet in my database, so I don't know its length and can't get more precise than that. Seating depth equals case length plus bullet length minus the COL. If you post what your seating depth or your bullet length is, I can give you QuickLOAD's prediction for a tight chamber result.

Note from your other thread the discussion of the forensic technical error Ayoob cites in the suicide-turned-homicide case. Based on that, I would recommend against the Remington brass. Use Starline or Top Brass, since no commercial ammo is loaded with either headstamp to create that confusion.

Further, I recommend against Remington based on technical experience with it in the .45 ACP. Remington .45 ACP brass has poor reloading life in my experience. It's case mouths are thin, and they work harden fast. I've had them last as few as two or three reloadings before becoming so springy they could no longer be sized small enough to hold a bullet. I've had Winchester brass last up to 50 reloadings, by comparison.

Top Brass (when it's available) and Starline (not expected to be available factory direct until 3/31/2010) both make brass that is more pliant, like the Winchester, but in addition, both brands, in my measurements, have about half the brass weight variance of R-P, Winchester, Federal, WCC, TZ, or IMI headstamp brass. They are just more carefully made, and for self-defense, that's what I would want. You just have to find some.
 

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I haven't tried the "new" Unique but the ld Unique with 7.5 to 7.7 grains behind a 230 grainer gets you in the 900 to 950 FPS range
 

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Jwp475,

QuickLOAD shows the current Unique reaching 26,000 and 27,600 psi with those Unique charges, respectively, and a jacketed 230 grain RN seated to 1.27". Way above +P (23,000 psi max) and likely dangerous in an unsupported .45 ACP chamber. Alliant's site shows 6.0 grains of Unique as its recipe. Those loads are very reasonable and are predicted to reach those velocities in a 6" bbl .45 Colt.
 

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Jwp475,

QuickLOAD shows the current Unique reaching 26,000 and 27,600 psi with those Unique charges, respectively, and a jacketed 230 grain RN seated to 1.27". Way above +P (23,000 psi max) and likely dangerous in an unsupported .45 ACP chamber. Alliant's site shows 6.0 grains of Unique as its recipe. Those loads are very reasonable and are predicted to reach those velocities in a 6" bbl .45 Colt.

I agree the pressure is getting into 460 Rowland territory. While Quick Load may not be dead on it is good to know the predicted pressure and would be a load to stay away from IMHO
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Many legal experts do recommend that, but Joshua's other thread has covered that in some detail, here.


Joshua,

You are running an energy level about equivalent to military hard ball. If that were round ball seated to 1.270', I would expect you to see something on the order of 870 fps from a tight test barrel chamber. Individual gun chamber variables, though, and could make it fall anywhere between 830 and 880 fps.

Typical hardball is about .65" long, so it seats about 0.283" into the case. Seating deeper raises pressure and velocity. I don't have your bullet in my database, so I don't know its length and can't get more precise than that. Seating depth equals case length plus bullet length minus the COL. If you post what your seating depth or your bullet length is, I can give you QuickLOAD's prediction for a tight chamber result.

Note from your other thread the discussion of the forensic technical error Ayoob cites in the suicide-turned-homicide case. Based on that, I would recommend against the Remington brass. Use Starline or Top Brass, since no commercial ammo is loaded with either headstamp to create that confusion.

Further, I recommend against Remington based on technical experience with it in the .45 ACP. Remington .45 ACP brass has poor reloading life in my experience. It's case mouths are thin, and they work harden fast. I've had them last as few as two or three reloadings before becoming so springy they could no longer be sized small enough to hold a bullet. I've had Winchester brass last up to 50 reloadings, by comparison.

Top Brass (when it's available) and Starline (not expected to be available factory direct until 3/31/2010) both make brass that is more pliant, like the Winchester, but in addition, both brands, in my measurements, have about half the brass weight variance of R-P, Winchester, Federal, WCC, TZ, or IMI headstamp brass. They are just more carefully made, and for self-defense, that's what I would want. You just have to find some.
Hi Nick,

I have the bullet down as .654", the case down as .893", and the seated depth with a COL of about 1.24" as .31".

This is the regular Remington .451" 230gn bullet.

Thanks!

Josh
 

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In reality, handloads for defense can cause you legal troubles if you use them. Many handgun legal experts reccommend factory ammo for defense so the lawyers can't paint you as someone looking to kill or maim with "special" loads.
Sorry bandit, not buyin into that. Most factory defensive loads are capable of inflicting as much or MORE internal damage than anything I reload.:confused:
 
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