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Discussion Starter #1
With the hunting season here or approaching, our local range has had nearly every shooting point occupied on the weekends with hunters sighting in or tuning up their favorite bolt actions or leverguns.

Since the attacks on September 11th, the range has been just as crowded, but with shooters sighting in or tuning up their AR15s, M1s and AK47s.
 

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Jack,

I haven't noticed any change where I go shooting. Of course I live in a valley whose High School plays 8 man football and last years graduating class was a whopping 16 grads. I just head out to the far north end of the valley on BLM land and set up. I always shoot at targets stapled to boxes so nothing is left behind when I am done. The only competition is a couple of times a year sheep move through behind my backstop, so I have to relocate for a day.  Of course there are days when I wish I had a covered shooting line. The sun in Nevada can get nasty, and you are well advised to get out early in the day before the wind picks up.

ammohead
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What part of the state are you in? Reno area? LV?

My county has a relatively small population but since it's so near San Francisco/Oakland we get a lot of folks coming up looking for a decent place to shoot.

Our problem is a bit different...

In mid summer it's too COLD and after about 1<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->0 pm the wind kicks up (always coming in from the 2 o'clock position) making good groups difficult.
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Stranger,

I'm afraid I'm showing my age with the follow response!

"With the hunting season here or approaching, our local range has had nearly every shooting point occupied on the weekends with hunters sighting in or tuning up their favorite bolt actions or leverguns."

Since Iowa doesn't allow smokeless long gun hunting,  this time of the year, our tables are filled with the black powder boys. Unfortunately, since they seldom use scopes and never bring spoting scopes, they shoot one or two shots and then need to walk down to see where they hit.  It takes forever to shoot when they're out there.

"Since the attacks on September 11th, the range has been just as crowded, but with shooters sighting in or tuning up their AR15s, M1s and AK47s."

We've had a definite increase in the AR15's, but I'd hesitate to call what they do sighting or tuning! They basically blast away, pulling the trigger as fast as they can and as far as I can tell, are lucky to even hit the dirt. Yesterday, after one blast, the young man looked at his target and exclaimed, "Well, one out of ten ain't bad" -- and I don't think he was referring to the 10-ring. You can tell when they've been there because the dirt is all torn up, using starting about 10yds. out.  Additionally, this group never seems to come with any forethought to targets, so use whatever they can drag out and seldom pick it up.

Dan "must be getting old" K.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Our range strictly enforces the rapid fire rule, you have to allow at least three seconds between shots. That discourages the "spray and pray" crowd.

They only time I ever felt really uncomfortable though was once when my son and I went shooting on a Christmas Eve morning. OK, OK, I know... the tree was trimmed, the presents bought and we had nothing else to do.

The only people at the range where some sawed-off shotgun types that even intimidated the range master. Lesson learned... who else do you expect to be at a shooting range on Christmas Eve :)
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Stranger,

That's one of the few advantages we Iowans have, that time of the year, even the sawed-off shotgun types are snuggled inside.  

I had the opposite experience, the SWAT team was there and between the language and the walking down range when you were shooting -- they "owned" the place.  You spoke to them, "Hi", and they just stared at you.

Reminds me of the first time I was in Times Square (20 yrs. ago) and it would have taken a squad of Marines to make this poor ole Iowa farm boy feel safe.  Maybe my AR15 blasters and "one shot and down range" blackpowder boys aren't so bad after all.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I too had a similar experience.

I used to go to an indoor range near here with some regularity. A number of PDs would use this range for practice and qualification. I, by no means, am an expert pistol shot but I think I can hold my own with most --particulalry with Glocks and Colt 1911s.

One night, a group of San Francisco Sheriffs Deputies were in practicing for qualification. Mostly, pretty young guys. After watching them for a bit I offered some advice and pointers that could significantly raise their scores. A couple of them were dubious at first but tried the suggestions.  Their scores improved almost immediately. Then everyone wanted to be "coached." These guys were friendly and very appreciative.

Another night there were a group of California Highway Patrol (CHP) officers in for qualification practice. Same scenario. Their shooting technique was ok but nothing to write home about. I politely offered some suggestions. It was as if some kind of flea infested vermin had dared to speak to them. I guess I didn't realize how special they were.

From then on, I just minded my own business.


(Edited by Stranger at 11<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->6 pm on Sep. 25, 2001)
 

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I lived in the Washington DC area for several years.  Since there are about 27 law enforcement agencies in the area (no foolin), you would see agency cops at the range a lot.  The "Gargoyles (sunglasses) stare" was the norm.  When I mentioned this to a buddy who's a old plainclothes agent for a federal agency, he chuckled and said that their profile is called "cop queer" in the business.

The rural (at the time) Howard County (Md.) SWAT team shot a couple of renegade Jerseys munching on a golf course putting green from a helicopter several years ago, so they might have decent training.  :biggrin:

On the other hand, the range on a weekend was full of "city people" and foreigners out to shoot and it was very entertaining -- similiar to the Iowan experience.  Targets were optional.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That brings up another question.

What sort of loads are most effective against dairy cows?  A buddy of mine says that a hot loaded 45-70 is enough but another friend insists that anything less than a 458 Win Mag loaded with 500g solids is "just suicide!" Especially, if 'ol Bossy makes it into the brush.





(Edited by Stranger at 10:53 am on Sep. 26, 2001)
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Stranger,

Hey, now you’re talkin’. But first, please do realize that the “renegade Jerseys” take a poor second to the “marauding Holsteins” when it comes to the big five we have out here in the heartland.  Add in the “man-eating rabbits” (you’ve seen Monty Python’s “Search for the Holy Grail?”), the “attack turkeys” and those cleverest of thieves, the  “rambling raccoons” and you’ve got the makings of a survival of the fittest lifetime experience. The groundhog could also be included, but anything whose “charge” gives you time to take a nap really isn’t in the top five category.

Some may snicker, but when you’ve been hit in the head by a fully grown Holstein’s tail that is embedded with hardened “you know what”, you know what the knights of old experienced with their maces. When you consider milking is required morning and nighttime and the flys bite and “hardened” tails swat, it can be ####.  The raccoons have the conspicuous advantage of being twice as smart as any living homo sapiens and will leave you naked of food and clothing if you blink an eye.

As for the required firearm caliber, if you have what it takes to risk getting close to the beast, the ever popular, but heavy recoiling .22 rimfire will do the job. Others will object, saying .410 to 12 gauge is the choice of experienced folks. I do have an actual experience that suggests a 25lb bow and cheap target arrows wouldn’t do the job. I was in the barn practicing (12yrs. old) with my trusty 25lb. bow and cheap target arrows when I hear a strange rustling outside.  Stuck my head out the barn door and saw a corn stalk shaking pretty hard – looked again and saw a ground hog that was attempting to get an ear of corn for breakfast.  Well, pulled back my trusty bow and let fly – hit the devil beast square in the back and the arrow bounced off, d___ animal didn’t even look around. Pull back to maximal length and again the arrow bounced off. The ground hog finally waddled down the stock was sauntered off.

Another time (still 12yrs. old), my dad told me there was a runt pig out in the alfalfa field that wasn’t going to “make it” and I should take care of it. “Taking care of it” in those days meant taking it by the hind legs and hitting it against the building. Well, I couldn’t do that then (and I still couldn’t do it) so I got my umpteen shot .22 pistol to do the job.  First shot hit the poor little devil in the ear and it took off through the alfalfa field with me right behind – emptied the revolver twice and never got the little fella. Dad just shock his head, said to go back to my chores and he’d take care of it. Neither one of us ever said a thing about it and I went to school and the big city and never had to worry about runt pigs again.      

Dan "ex-farm boy" K.


(Edited by DOK at 3:11 pm on Sep. 26, 2001)


(Edited by DOK at 3:12 pm on Sep. 26, 2001)
 

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LOL!!!

Patrick McMannus, move over. DOK has the field covered in B.S. (Bovine Stuff)

Dan, you brought back some umpleasant memories from the milkin parlor. Our Holstiens were quite adept at getting a nice gooey coating on the ol flyswatter about an hour before milking time.

As to the topic at hand (other than cow teats) I have not noticed our range getting the workout like it does the week before Moose season. It is flat out a zoo then!

I do find that I can create a little space with the ported Guide gun (45/70) once I get a seat. A couple of good muzzel blasts will usually clear out two lanes either side of me (four if I shoot it from under the metal awning, but that makes me flinch ;*)

Now that winter is almost upon us, the range is a pleasant place with guys (and gals)in insulated Carharts, with mittens and spotting scopes (it saves them having to walk downrange and look like a tattered cardboard box. (Please note that there is no finer sight in God's Creation than a plump Alaskan Woman in tattered Carharts...ahhh, beauty for the beholder, especially when she is packing a nice shootin iron!)

We were fortunate to get an indoor range built a couple years back (handgun only) so that we can actually shoot all winter without having to file the trigger guard off to make room for "the four finger mitten grip"

I just got back from my fall guiding session. My client took a nice 61" Bullwinkle from way back in the swamps. Will write more after my hernia operation.

Scotty
 

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I'm glad you folks with dairy cow experience could explain why the Howard County SWAT team was only just a match for the perps on the "Jersey Job."

I couldn't quite figure out why Howard County (pop. 5000 -- cows 15,000) had a SWAT team, much less a SWAT helicopter (and probably the supporting SWAT Urban Assault Vehicle to ride around in).  Money well spent and I'm sure the citizens of the county sleep better for it.

FYI -- Carhart's (aka "Cayharts" by the uninformed) are the brown overalls of dairymen, Alaskans, duck hunters and construction worker's.  I think the new Miss America wears a pair, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where have you been!!

They're the thin blue line between civilized society and the threat of MAD COW DISEASE.
 

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As far as cops shooting cows goes, where is PETA when you need them?  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->  For this country boy few things in life are as entertaining as watching a group of city people attempting to herd cattle...
Dan, the range you go to sounds a lot like one I've been to a few times near Des Moines.  All kinds of crazies there.  Some of them do bring targets though, in the form of old furniture, TV sets, stereos, hub caps, etc.  They tried putting out trash cans there, people shot them up too.  They build shooting benches, some bunch of punks comes in at night and builds a bonfire with them.  <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->  I try very hard to avoid the place, especially this time of year.
Good shooting
Mark
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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mcassill,

Pretty discouraging. The range sheds are held up by 8X8 lumber, which of course is the primary target for running penetration tests. The yard posts had to be eliminated and replaced with cement yard markers in the ground.  Brass is seldom picked up, and usually contains live ammo.  I'm waiting for the poor soul on the mowing tractor to hit a live round.  It's a county park (1700 acres) and the ranger told me the county is  down to it's last insurance company. We lose them and it's closed down.

And it may sound rather elitist, but I don't care, when I say the ones causing the problems don't appear to be the types that pay a lot of the taxes that support the range costs.  Kinda makes you wish reincarnation were true -- and hopefully these dinks would come back as game animals with open season year around!

Dan
 

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Dan, you hit the nail right on the head.  All it takes is a few dope dealer types to make all the rest of us look bad.  To me it seems that what needs to be done at such ranges is to put a big fence around it, lock the gates at night, and put someone at the front gate charging admission.  Seems to be the only way to weed out the idiots.
Good shooting
Mark
 

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 Well, after "observing" the observations I am glad I do not have to do the "handling" of it with any farm animals nor do I suffer from "mad at cow" disease. Also from my own observations if I ever have a armed law enforcement person pointing a firearm at me I know enough to stand still. ( serious pain allergy). I would like to direct one thing to stranger though. I am new to handgun shooting and  a kind "stranger" at the range I go to was thoughtful enough to give me a few pointers and words of wisdom. Not enough to get my shot groups under minute of wastub, but enough to get me to group my shots consistantly, even on several diffent firearms. So please for the sake of us who have realized that it is only what we learn after we know it all that counts ,,keep giving your advice and do not let narrow minded people win the battle of improving ourselves.

 
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Snowman,

Seldom is the day that goes by that I don't learn something of importance from the folks that contribute to the Beartooth forum -- MOW (minute of washtub)  just plain makes my day. I've been looking & listening extensively for the fitting description of my off-hand wheel-gun shooting and you nailed it. When I improved recently, I moved from the MOSob (minute of side-of-barn) category, but just couldn't come up with an accurate acronym!

Thanks,

Dan

(Edited by DOK at 5:24 pm on Oct. 6, 2001)
 
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