[weave]

Marshal and Jim Gates,
What ever became of the .416 Beartooth and family? Back around spring I seem to recall that you folks were close to having a working rifle for the .416 x 2" wildcat designed around a BTB slug. I also recall Mr. Gates speaking of expanding that into an entire line of cartridges. After the forum went down this summer progress stopped being posted (or I missed them). Do you have any info to share? Did a .358 Beartooth ever make it to paper? Also, who is doing the conversions?

 

[Jimmy]

Weave,

The longer your post goes unanswered the sadder I become...the B'Tooth cartridges seem to make such great sense. Oh, well... hope the liability lawyers havn't slowed them up.

 

[weave]

Someone else noticed that Marshall hasn't posted in a while. I hope all is well.

If anything kills this cartridge line it might be the .450 Marlin and its wildcat potential. I expect that somebody, somewhere is working on a cartridge with similar performance to the BTB cartridge. I will be patient and keep looking around.

 

[alyeska338]

Hello weave and Jimmy,
Marshall has been very busy working double time to fill all those bullet orders, he's not ignoring us.

I don't remember exactly, but seems they had run into some problems with the 416 Beartooth. I believe Mr. Gates was doing most of the cartridge development and has been exceptionally busy contributing research to various groups and hunting those big Spanish Hogs down in Florida.

I'm sure Marshall will check in as soon as he is able and contribute any info requested.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

 

[Henry McCann]

Would love to hear what happened to the .416 Beartooth!!

Is it true the .450 Marlin and its possible wildcats helped bury this project??

Was very excited as I'm a Marlin 1895 owner and big fan of this lever action. Sounded like an exciting family of wildcats!!!

 

[James Gates]

Friends All....The two Beartooth Wikdcats I worked on died for lack of interest. Designing the .375 and .416 Beartooth posed some hard requirements.
(1)They had to fit inside the Marlin action.
(2)They have to be designed around the working pressure of the Marlin.
(3)The neck was designed to cover all the lube grooves of Beartooth bullets.
These requirements cut back on the case capacity and to some that wanted more power (read bolt guns here), they looked "whimppy" (although they weren't!)
After trying various cases, for case capacity, I settled on the Rem. 350 Mag case. Both were designed round IMR powders with an avg. 86% density to water @ 44,000 psi....However, for the brave at heart, they could be pumped up to a higher psi with Ball powders running .99% to 105% of density to water.
If one used other basic .375 Mag cases there would be about 5% decrease in powder capacity.
My good friend, John Anderson, designed the .400 Yukon based on the .450 Marlin, but its neck is somewhat short for cast bullets, but is a "Hammer" with jacketed bullets. However, I prefer the more standard belt on the .375 Mag case design.
Best Regards, James C. Gates

 

[weave]

Thank you for the update.

I am sorry to hear that these cartridges died on the vine. It is always difficult to have a lot of effort go for naught. The idea had real merit in my opinion.

I suspect that many members of this forum will be disappointed.

The .400 Yukon sounds interesting though. Does Mr. Anderson have a website? Does he do the conversions?

 

[James Gates]

I have sent John Anderson an email asking him to come aboard and answer any questions concerning his .400 Yukon. At present he is having a lightweight rifle made to use when he come down for swamp hunting. He killed some nice hogs in Texas recently with it.....James C. Gates

 

[Jimmy]

Mr Gates,

These sound like the 416 Express I remember reading about awhile back. Seems to me it was based upon a 350 Rem mag case as well, and probably intended for bolt guns.

Are these cartridges close correlaries?

Thanks, Jimmy

 

[James Gates]

Jimmy...The .416 Beartooth is quite like the 10.6x51 (.40x2") except the shoulder is pushed back to cover all the lube grooves of the Beartooth bullets. As for ballistics, they can be loaded to pressures above 44/45,000 psi with ball powders. With IMR 3031 and RE7, the .416 Beartooth makes a fine cartridge in the Marlins. My records show that the work done on the 10.6x51 was done in .458 Win. Mag cases. I used the .350 Remington as it would not need neck reaming and the foreward part of the case would be thinner (giving a little more much needed case capacity. For all practical purposes. both are .458x2" Barnes cases necked to .416" bullets .....James C. Gates

 

[RugerNo3]

Essentially the 400Yukon is a 450 Marlin case necked to use the .405 bullets. Not the 416 diameter. He chambered it originally in a Marlin Levergun.