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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well,Hello there.
I'm a BPCR shooter,but I can't resist other Black Powder forums.
I HAVE to ask if you saw page 43 in the American Rifleman's Feb.2005 edition. There's a picture of a guy named Mark Donaldson holding a MONSTER benchrest BP muzzle loading rifle.The caption says he fired a perfect 50X at the 2004 Camp Perry Nationals in Muzzle loading.
Does anyone out there know about this unusual niche of BP shooting?
I would be very interested .
AJC
 

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Gun Digest had a fictional story about a hugh civil war era muzzleloading bench gun years ago. The barrel was the size of a tractor axle (2"-3") and about 4 feet long. It had a barrel length scope. I can't remember all the details, but it was shooting at over half a mile. The maker was Horance Warner(?).

Bye
Jack
 

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Swany said:
Chunk guns, for over the log shooting can weigh in at 50lbs and have very large bbls.
Chunk gun...stump gun...slug gun...all are very heavy barreled muzzle loaders made to be shot from a rest (or a "stump"). 20-50 pounds, with most running in the 20's. These are the people that developed the paper patch (although many used a kind of cross of paper as a patch, so it's more like a skinny sabot than a normal patch)...and even in the 1840's wee using telescopic sights.

Great fun...although I haven't looked in a number of years, would guess some of the hard-core black powder areas of the country still hold matches.

Buddy built one with a 1 1/2" .45cal. blank, 31" long, and a Tingle action (a kind of semi-modern under hammer action). False muzzle for laoding...with 4 alignment pins and a little "flg" to block the sights when the false muzzle is in place (becasue it's embarrassing to shoot the false muzzle down range). Rifled 1:20, was made to shoot 500gr. paper patched slugs...fouling not a problem as most will clean after every shot.

Corbin at one time made "hammer" dies...or hammer-swages. Precison made dies, but like the originals, wer powered by a mallet rather than a press. Made for uniform bullets once you got the "swing' of it.

Good times...he's in is 80's now and no longer shoots...and I'll eventaully end up with that moster gun...but I'd like it to be a long time from now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks,ribbonstone.
That was very informative.As I said,I'm into the BPCR ..but what is a false muzzle?
I'm shooting a Browning Hi Wall 40/65 and a Pedersoli "Quigley" 45/110 ..all with BP ..of course.My point is..I'm not afraid of recoil,nor what may seem preposterous to a regular "shooter".I like the bench,I'm not hunting(any more),and Bench Rest Black Powder has an appeal to me.
I'm jealous...and it ain't the gun.
Can you take your elderly buddy shooting one more time?
I know you would if you could.
Thanks again,ribbonstone
AJC
 

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AJC44MAG said:
Thanks,ribbonstone.
That was very informative.As I said,I'm into the BPCR ..but what is a false muzzle?
I'm shooting a Browning Hi Wall 40/65 and a Pedersoli "Quigley" 45/110 ..all with BP ..of course.My point is..I'm not afraid of recoil,nor what may seem preposterous to a regular "shooter".I like the bench,I'm not hunting(any more),and Bench Rest Black Powder has an appeal to me.
I'm jealous...and it ain't the gun.
Can you take your elderly buddy shooting one more time?
I know you would if you could.
Thanks again,ribbonstone
AJC
Idea is that the false muzzle exactly lines the bullet up with the bore...telling how to make one will kind of expalin it's use.

Drill around the barrel for 4 pin holes...as if you were setting a tent up around the bore. Make the holes about 3" long and they MUST be as perfectly paralel to the bore. CUT 2" of barrel off. Fit the two ends back togeter as perfectly as possible (dead flat). Fit pins to the cut off section.

NOW...you have a 2" section of barrel that can be pined in exact alignment with the bore. Take that 2" section and ream it to BORE DIAMeter (basically just reaming out the rifling without increases the droove depth). Polish it,m but don't enlarge it.

IF you were to set a bullet into this smooth bore section (the false muzzle) and then set it on the muzzle of the gun (with those pins), the bullet would be perfectly alingned with the bore...so when you ram the bullet into the barrel, it's goiing to do in DEAD CENTER.

Can slightly taper the false muzzle to make centering that bullet easier...and the 2" sectionw as just picked as a random number, what you really want is a section long enough to contain the length of the slug excluding any tapering you do to get it to center.

The little flag is set to block the front sight...just sticks up like a lolly-pop...the one we made is actually painted to look like a little STOP sign.

Other people don't like cutting barrels...so if you desire can make it from any metal you'd like to pin to the barrel as above and ream to goove diameter.
 

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I HAVE to ask if you saw page 43 in the American Rifleman's Feb.2005 edition. There's a picture of a guy named Mark Donaldson holding a MONSTER benchrest BP muzzle loading rifle.The caption says he fired a perfect 50X at the 2004 Camp Perry Nationals in Muzzle loading.

Mark Donaldson is a super shot and one heck of a competitor...Usually the shooters for Bench don't count the score they count X's becuase most will shoot a 50 with X's...I have seen some of the rifles go to 60 and 70 lbs at Friendship with 48" barrels and 62 Cal...So there is a whole different world out there...Some of the powder charges are big also... from anywhere around 125 grains to 250 grains of powder...They are simply amazing with what they are doing...

Hilljack
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks,guys.
Three more questions.
How does one aquire a chunk gun?Are they all custom or hand made?Is there a source of information about this interesting corner of BP shooting?
We shooters(not just BP) gotta stick together.
AJC
 

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Think a net-search for "Muzzle Blasts" (a magazine) will turn up their site... there are some on-line archives about "stump guns" that would be worth reading.
 

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Heavy Bench BP Target Rifles

I have recently bought a heavy bench 50 cal, a beautiful piece. But the dealer seems to be less that the honest sort. In shipping the rear peep sight a redfield and the flag on the false muzzle or crown protector was snapped off. If shipped back he'd see what he could do. Now Im in need of a direction to someone who makes or can make a new false muzzle / crown protector.As he says he didnt receive them but the post office says he did. By the way he tried to screw UPS. If you can help please e mail subject heavy bench BP to [email protected]
 

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AJC44MAG said:
Well,Hello there.
I'm a BPCR shooter,but I can't resist other Black Powder forums.
I HAVE to ask if you saw page 43 in the American Rifleman's Feb.2005 edition. There's a picture of a guy named Mark Donaldson holding a MONSTER benchrest BP muzzle loading rifle.The caption says he fired a perfect 50X at the 2004 Camp Perry Nationals in Muzzle loading.
Does anyone out there know about this unusual niche of BP shooting?
I would be very interested .
AJC
Contact the NMLRA (National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association) and find out who is the NMLRA Field Representative for your state. Then contact them for more information. They can help you with tons of information about br shooters in your state along with dates of upcoming matches.
 

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Underhammers are the favored action for chunk guns because the hammer falls in-line with the bore reducing the roll that is often created by a side-lock. The heavy barrels came about for stability, the more mass you have, the harder it is to move. Thus, a 20-30 pound rifle is less likely to be affected by the movement of the action than say an 8 pound rifle. The additional mass also requires a lot of recoil to move so there is less chance of the recoil causing the muzzle to move around before the ball/bullet leaves the bore.

Most all chunk guns are hand built one at a time and are fitted to the shooter just like any serious centerfire BR shooter would have done. Major considerations are: LOP; drop; cast-off; comb & cheekpiece size, shape & angles; wrist angle, size & shape; arc, angles, width and length of butt; trigger length, width & shape; sight style, location and hight. The barrel length, weight and profile must also be fitted to the shooter as well as the type of shooting - IE: A shooter who is only 67" tall and build like a bean pole won't do well with a rifle having a barrel that is 48" long with the C/B being way forward, this will result in the shooter constantly pulling shots low and will quickly lead to shooter fatigue as he/she attempts to fight the gun rather than having it become and extension of the shooter's own body.

What also must be taken into consideration is if the rifle is going to be shot from the prone position, from cross sticks or from a bench, I'm not aware of any ML matches that are shot from the Creedmoor position. Match guns, regardless of the type, must be built by someone who understands the nature of match shooting and how the gun is to be fit to the shooter - building "by the book" is fine as long as it is the match gun building book and not just a book on building a particular style. What looks cool on a fancy gun or what works well for field shooting does not always correspond to what will work for punching paper or pounding steel. On the flip side, the opposite is true to a point in that a builder who understands match shooting and proper gun/shooter fit can usually do fairly well building a gun that will perform well in the field provided the builder also understands hunting conditions as well.

There are several different ways to make a "false muzzle" which should not be confused with a "muzzle protector". A false muzzle contains rifling, as RS said, it's made from a portion of the barrel that is cut off however, it must either be faced or rotated until the rifling of the false muzzle re-aligns with the rifling in the bore. No matter how you cut the section off, you are loosing material and if the cut piece was just simply put back on, the rifling will have a definite "step" because of the missing material.

The actual manner in which the internal portion of the false muzzle is finished has been done in almost an infinite number of ways and one can write a novel trying to describe them all.

For roundball shooters, I don't feel a false muzzle is necessary but a muzzle protector is a good idea to keep wear off the crown.

If you're shooting conicals, swaging is the best route to go but both the swaging process and the bullet design must be conducive to creating consistently dependable accuracy.
 

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Gun Digest had a fictional story about a hugh civil war era muzzleloading bench gun years ago. The barrel was the size of a tractor axle (2"-3") and about 4 feet long. It had a barrel length scope. I can't remember all the details, but it was shooting at over half a mile. The maker was Horance Warner(?).

Bye
Jack
 

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Horace Warner did make some very serious bench guns. Google "Little George Lainhart" and see if the 69 cal slug gun from the 1800's comes up. It is the one that goes with the story of the officer that was shot from a mile in the civil war. S.P. Stevens, a noted, well respected, Texas gun collector, and sense passed, owned the gun in the 1960's and an article in February 1969 Gun Report tells it's history and has a picture of a target shot at 300 yards in 1968 with 5 overlapping holes. I have no idea where the gun is now. When I shot round ball bench in the early 1980's, the gun I built took ideas from Warner and from Little George which was made by Abe Williams under contract to the Union army to make sniper rifles.
 

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Sigh.................You.ve resurrected a 15 year old thread. Really had to reach back in the archives to find it. When a thread is this old, it's best to use it for info and start your own new thread.
Thanks for joining the board and Welcome.
 
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2005 thread, banned OP, quoting someone not online since 2013.... As the sticky says, "moderated in one form or another".
 
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