I have been recently looking into changing the way I have cleaned my guns for 30 years. Dad just told me to soak a brush with Hoppes #9, run it up and down the bore, patch it out until patches come out clean and then run an oiled patch down it and back up. Alot of Dad's advice was wisdom but I guess from what I have read and recently been told by some vetran shooters, this does not fit in that catagory. The trouble is is that there are SO many products out there and I have done enough research to utterly be confused. All seem to agree a one piece rod from the breech is best but what about the bore snake or the otis system (which looks intreging). Do I brew up Ed's red or continue to use Hoppes? What about Sweets 7.62 or Shooters Choice, Butch"s bore shine, Ballistol or Pro shot???? Then a respected person on another forum says Wipeout is the only way to go!!!!!!!! I am about nuts trying to figure out what to use. I would presume I have a lot of copper to deal with in several of my guns due to what I stated earlier. Any expert advice would be greatly appreciated. I already did a search on this forum and either it has not been "hashed out" here or it was lost in space during the changeover. Help out if you can THANKS
best bore cleaning products
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Hi, cochran:
I still use Hoppe's No.9 for most of my cleaning, so I'm a bit behind the curve. It's cheap when you buy a big bottle. Hoppe's No.9 Benchrest is the safest copper remover, even if it's slow. You can leave it in the bore overnight. Accubore gets more .22 Rimfire fouling out in one pass than anything else I've tried. It's sticky, not slippery, so don't use a tight patch.
Do not use Shooter's Choice and Sweet's in the same cleaning session. Don't leave Sweet's in the barrel longer than 15 minutes and oil the barrel as soon as you're done. Don't ask how I learned that.
If there's a lot of copper, JB compound gets out fast but it's a pure elbow grease job. Rem Clean isn't as fast. Carbon and copper will layer if a copper cleaner isn't used regularly, so give it a shot of JB when you stop getting green patches, then hit with copper remover again.
I haven't heard of the otis system. did you mean the Outer's Foul Out electrochemical system? A local dealer likes it for his trade-ins.
Bye
Jack
I still use Hoppe's No.9 for most of my cleaning, so I'm a bit behind the curve. It's cheap when you buy a big bottle. Hoppe's No.9 Benchrest is the safest copper remover, even if it's slow. You can leave it in the bore overnight. Accubore gets more .22 Rimfire fouling out in one pass than anything else I've tried. It's sticky, not slippery, so don't use a tight patch.
Do not use Shooter's Choice and Sweet's in the same cleaning session. Don't leave Sweet's in the barrel longer than 15 minutes and oil the barrel as soon as you're done. Don't ask how I learned that.
If there's a lot of copper, JB compound gets out fast but it's a pure elbow grease job. Rem Clean isn't as fast. Carbon and copper will layer if a copper cleaner isn't used regularly, so give it a shot of JB when you stop getting green patches, then hit with copper remover again.
I haven't heard of the otis system. did you mean the Outer's Foul Out electrochemical system? A local dealer likes it for his trade-ins.
Bye
Jack
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36,223 Posts
#9 works good and smells good too! By the way, plain #9 will eventually take copper out. Leave a bore wet with #9 and in a few days a patch will come out green if there is any copper in it. #9 is a rust preventative (says so on the can) so this a real safe, if slow, way to clean.
I do use copper solvent from time to time, mostly Sweet's. You'll know right away if you have a lot of copper.
Quit using Shooter's choice when it took the finish off one of my stocks (Tru-Oil).
Unlike Jack, I have left Sweet's in a barrel all night without apparent harm, before I knew better. Guess I was lucky? Don't know.
What I have found is that the first time you use a copper solvent it seems like it take forever to get the copper fouling out. Then each time, it is quicker and quicker. Guess the barrel gets smoothed up over time.
If you have a barrel that's badly copper fouled, I have found that it helps to brush after several passes of the copper fouling. Guess you end up with layers of other stuff mixed in with the jacket fouling and then the copper solvent can't get to it easily?
I have used the Rem bore cleaner on a patch which was wrapped around a brush for stubborn jobs. It works but is abrasive so don't get carried away.
Hardly ever clean .22's. Once in a while they get a good scrubbing, though.
Many of my guns have been lapped or shot enough that fouling isn't much of a problem anymore.
When I am done cleaning, it's one oiled patch, then one dry one. This seems to keep the point of impact for the first shot within the group, for my guns.
If I'm working up a load, then I start out with a real clean barrel. After that, I don't worry too much unless the gun is exposed to moisture.
I have a Foul-Out but found it was pretty slow for copper, great for lead. You have to check after the first so many minutes to be sure the solution hasn't been contaminated by rust in the barrel, if so, it will pit the barrel if you leave it in too long.
Break-Free is a great rust preventative for the outside of a gun but if you leave it in the bore, the teflon seems to make the first few shots a little crazy. I just use it to wipe down the outside.
I live in a fairly low humidity environment so I might be able to get away with less cleaning than other people.
I do use copper solvent from time to time, mostly Sweet's. You'll know right away if you have a lot of copper.
Quit using Shooter's choice when it took the finish off one of my stocks (Tru-Oil).
Unlike Jack, I have left Sweet's in a barrel all night without apparent harm, before I knew better. Guess I was lucky? Don't know.
What I have found is that the first time you use a copper solvent it seems like it take forever to get the copper fouling out. Then each time, it is quicker and quicker. Guess the barrel gets smoothed up over time.
If you have a barrel that's badly copper fouled, I have found that it helps to brush after several passes of the copper fouling. Guess you end up with layers of other stuff mixed in with the jacket fouling and then the copper solvent can't get to it easily?
I have used the Rem bore cleaner on a patch which was wrapped around a brush for stubborn jobs. It works but is abrasive so don't get carried away.
Hardly ever clean .22's. Once in a while they get a good scrubbing, though.
Many of my guns have been lapped or shot enough that fouling isn't much of a problem anymore.
When I am done cleaning, it's one oiled patch, then one dry one. This seems to keep the point of impact for the first shot within the group, for my guns.
If I'm working up a load, then I start out with a real clean barrel. After that, I don't worry too much unless the gun is exposed to moisture.
I have a Foul-Out but found it was pretty slow for copper, great for lead. You have to check after the first so many minutes to be sure the solution hasn't been contaminated by rust in the barrel, if so, it will pit the barrel if you leave it in too long.
Break-Free is a great rust preventative for the outside of a gun but if you leave it in the bore, the teflon seems to make the first few shots a little crazy. I just use it to wipe down the outside.
I live in a fairly low humidity environment so I might be able to get away with less cleaning than other people.
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I've been using Butch's Bore Shine for awhile and love it. Like you I used to use Hoppe's #9 exclusively, now I use it just for the fragrant aroma! When I started using it I cleaned all of my guns with it. Should have seen the copper come out of those barrels. I kept running patches down the barrels until those patches quit turning purple. Now I clean after every shooting session with it. Then run a patch of oil or Hoppe's down the barrel for storage. Seems to be working fine.
Thanks so much for the prompt replies and would invite other input. For Jack (and anyone else interested and might like to comment) the otis system location is as follows: www.mwetech.com/gc-otis.htm
I do not have this kit but it peeks my interest because I now know you should clean from breech to muzzle but for some guns this is extremely inconvenient ie. slide action and some lever action rifles. Check it out and let me know what you think. Seems like it would work??
Thanks again you guys!
I do not have this kit but it peeks my interest because I now know you should clean from breech to muzzle but for some guns this is extremely inconvenient ie. slide action and some lever action rifles. Check it out and let me know what you think. Seems like it would work??
Thanks again you guys!
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Hi, Gents:
The Otis system looks like a Kit and Caboodle (sp?)sytem. It might be the same thing. A friend has a K&C and likes it. Here's a SLOOOW link to Otis.
http://www.otisgun.com/cgi-bin/storenew.pl?page=/new/fcatalog.html&setup=1&cart_id=
Ammonia is hydrophilic, so rust from Sweet's is dependent on humidity. The first bottles had no warning about leaving it in too long and that hurt a lot of guns.
Bye
Jack
The Otis system looks like a Kit and Caboodle (sp?)sytem. It might be the same thing. A friend has a K&C and likes it. Here's a SLOOOW link to Otis.
http://www.otisgun.com/cgi-bin/storenew.pl?page=/new/fcatalog.html&setup=1&cart_id=
Ammonia is hydrophilic, so rust from Sweet's is dependent on humidity. The first bottles had no warning about leaving it in too long and that hurt a lot of guns.
Bye
Jack
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36,223 Posts
I carry one of the Kit and Caboodle flexible cleaning rods in my pack while hunting. Haven't needed it in the field for my rifles, but if I ever did, boy would I be glad to have it.
I have gotten a little mud in the end of a shotgun barrel once, and sure was glad that I could unscrew the choke tube and clean it out. Always carry a quarter in your pocket while hunting with a shotgun with choke tubes! Don't have this option with a rifle.
I have gotten a little mud in the end of a shotgun barrel once, and sure was glad that I could unscrew the choke tube and clean it out. Always carry a quarter in your pocket while hunting with a shotgun with choke tubes! Don't have this option with a rifle.
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471 Posts
One not mentioned yet is FLITZ boy up here in NH you can't keep it on the shelf, works great on all types of metal, it comes in a paste bottle,a little goes a long way, removes lead&copper/nitrates etc...great on the outside of the guns, stainless also, it also weather guards the metal as well. I got introduced to this cleaner a year ago, put a little coat on the inside of your barrel wait a few minuets and then run a clean patch and you won't believe all that come out, Try even using hoppies first do your best, then try Flitz you won't believe how much more junk comes out that was left behind bye other cleaners. Here is the webpage.
www.flitz.com
Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
www.flitz.com
Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
Cleaning guns was once as real study in chemistry, time, and sweat. No more!
I've used every product extant and Ballistol is the best of 'em all. Shove a wet, dripping wet patch down the bore, use a brush with a patch wrapped around it if needed, let it sit overnight, or as long as you'd like, run a clean patch, another wet patch, another clean patch and you're done - and have a gleaming bore.
Ballistol turned a mediocre Savage .30-30 over 12 guage into a sub-minute of angle rifle in 2 uses. I can't say any more than I have used the stuff in my 8x57 rimmed over 16 gauge which was made in Essen, Germany in 1930 and it made the bore look better - and shoot better than it ever has before. I save the Hoppe's for aftershave!
Terry
I've used every product extant and Ballistol is the best of 'em all. Shove a wet, dripping wet patch down the bore, use a brush with a patch wrapped around it if needed, let it sit overnight, or as long as you'd like, run a clean patch, another wet patch, another clean patch and you're done - and have a gleaming bore.
Ballistol turned a mediocre Savage .30-30 over 12 guage into a sub-minute of angle rifle in 2 uses. I can't say any more than I have used the stuff in my 8x57 rimmed over 16 gauge which was made in Essen, Germany in 1930 and it made the bore look better - and shoot better than it ever has before. I save the Hoppe's for aftershave!
Terry
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In 40+ years of shooting highpower rifles, I have had the opportunity to try just about everything that has come along for bore cleaners. Nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING even comes close to WipeOut!!
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67 Posts
Garth Dial,
Wipe-Out ...
http://www.paulcompany.com/wipeout.htm
Does a remarkable job on Copper.
Took copper out of my 22-250 Mark V ... nothing else had ever worked.
And, all it did was simply sit in that barrel for 30 minutes!
But, more important (for me) is the job Wipe-Out does on my pistol and revolver barrels. One great example was the Copper left behind during the proof rounds Ruger fired in my new Stainless Super Blackhawk. You could clearly see red/orange streaks at the chamber-end, but nothing, even 24 hour soaks ... could get them out. Wipe-Out removed 100% of that copper ... again, after a 30 minute wait!
My recent Wipe-Out test handled the black carbon staining in my Kimber 45 CDP. An over nite wait removed 100% of that black carbon staining!
Bill
Wipe-Out ...
http://www.paulcompany.com/wipeout.htm
Does a remarkable job on Copper.
Took copper out of my 22-250 Mark V ... nothing else had ever worked.
And, all it did was simply sit in that barrel for 30 minutes!
But, more important (for me) is the job Wipe-Out does on my pistol and revolver barrels. One great example was the Copper left behind during the proof rounds Ruger fired in my new Stainless Super Blackhawk. You could clearly see red/orange streaks at the chamber-end, but nothing, even 24 hour soaks ... could get them out. Wipe-Out removed 100% of that copper ... again, after a 30 minute wait!
My recent Wipe-Out test handled the black carbon staining in my Kimber 45 CDP. An over nite wait removed 100% of that black carbon staining!
Bill
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114 Posts
Has anyone tried Hunters coppermelt? Their website makes it sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Would be interesting to know if anybody has first hand experience.
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Hello,
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Barne's CR#10.
That is the right stuff for copper fouling.It's too strong for general use,but second to none for copper removal,
For general use,I still use the Hoppe's that was my favorite years ago.
I do use Shooter's Choice if I had shot a lot of jacketed bullets.
Frank
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Barne's CR#10.
That is the right stuff for copper fouling.It's too strong for general use,but second to none for copper removal,
For general use,I still use the Hoppe's that was my favorite years ago.
I do use Shooter's Choice if I had shot a lot of jacketed bullets.
Frank
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1,013 Posts
I've been using Butch's Bore Shine with excellent results. Just patches, no brushes.
Wipe-out looks very interesting. I'm going to try and get some and try it.
Wipe-out looks very interesting. I'm going to try and get some and try it.
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342 Posts
I was thinking of getting a can of Wipe-Out till I read the site...
Maybe not the best choice for my AR15!
Fellows,
I have a a couple of rather unique bore cleaning procedures, but they are the fastest and most effective I've ever encountered. Both of them absolutely REQUIRE reloading, but except for that, they are simple, easy and anyone can do them.
The first procedure is for removing leading from rifle barrels, and it is simplicity itself: Just load up half a dozen mild plinking cast bullet loads. But before you seat the bullet, top the powder charge off with some dry, uncooked cream of wheat cereal. The amount isn't critical: You can fill the case, or you can just fill the shoulder and neck of the case (if you're using a dacron filler). Seat the bullet and fire a few shots. Even if you couldn't even see the rifling because the leading was so bad, this will whisk every trace out and leave you with a gleaming bore. It appears to work by forming a hard wad out of the cream of wheat that fits the bore down to microscopic levels, and is harder than the leading. As it goes down the barrel, it pushes the leading out in front of it. But be aware: THIS WILL RAISE PRESSURES!! That's why you need to use a mild load.
The second way seems to be effective against almost all forms of hard fouling, no matter what the source. And to tell the truth, it's really a cross between cleaning and lapping. Again, it will raise pressures, so DO NOT use more than about half a normal powder charge. But you can use jacketed bullets - in fact, they work best. Again, you assemble some perfectly ordinary very mild loads and take them to the range with a cleaning rod, a bore mop and a jar of JB compound.
Set up your rifle on the bench and remove the bolt. Wipe some JB compound on the mop and swab the bore down with it. Use just enough to give a thin coating: You aren't trying to plug the bore. Anyhow, insert a round of the mild loads and fire it. Remove the bolt, swab again, replace the bolt and fire another round. Repeat for about five rounds, and then run a wet patch down the bore, and then a dry one. You'll find your bore gleams like it had been coated with mercury! But so far, I've never been able to measure any change in bore diameter from this, and I don't believe anything will get a bore any cleaner.
HTH
Molly
I have a a couple of rather unique bore cleaning procedures, but they are the fastest and most effective I've ever encountered. Both of them absolutely REQUIRE reloading, but except for that, they are simple, easy and anyone can do them.
The first procedure is for removing leading from rifle barrels, and it is simplicity itself: Just load up half a dozen mild plinking cast bullet loads. But before you seat the bullet, top the powder charge off with some dry, uncooked cream of wheat cereal. The amount isn't critical: You can fill the case, or you can just fill the shoulder and neck of the case (if you're using a dacron filler). Seat the bullet and fire a few shots. Even if you couldn't even see the rifling because the leading was so bad, this will whisk every trace out and leave you with a gleaming bore. It appears to work by forming a hard wad out of the cream of wheat that fits the bore down to microscopic levels, and is harder than the leading. As it goes down the barrel, it pushes the leading out in front of it. But be aware: THIS WILL RAISE PRESSURES!! That's why you need to use a mild load.
The second way seems to be effective against almost all forms of hard fouling, no matter what the source. And to tell the truth, it's really a cross between cleaning and lapping. Again, it will raise pressures, so DO NOT use more than about half a normal powder charge. But you can use jacketed bullets - in fact, they work best. Again, you assemble some perfectly ordinary very mild loads and take them to the range with a cleaning rod, a bore mop and a jar of JB compound.
Set up your rifle on the bench and remove the bolt. Wipe some JB compound on the mop and swab the bore down with it. Use just enough to give a thin coating: You aren't trying to plug the bore. Anyhow, insert a round of the mild loads and fire it. Remove the bolt, swab again, replace the bolt and fire another round. Repeat for about five rounds, and then run a wet patch down the bore, and then a dry one. You'll find your bore gleams like it had been coated with mercury! But so far, I've never been able to measure any change in bore diameter from this, and I don't believe anything will get a bore any cleaner.
HTH
Molly
You asked about the bore snake and I didn't see where anyone gave you an answer about it. I just got two for my lever guns and think they are the best thing since sliced bread. I don't have that much experience with the shooting sport but I love it. I to was cleaning my guns the old way using a rod from the muzzle and found out from this forum that that is a NO NO. I purchased the bore snakes and I love them for the ease of using them and from my experience they do a great job. They are sooooo much easier to use than a cleaning rod. They are also washable. For the price I don't think you can beat them. The Otis kit is a lot more money. Midway has the bore snakes on sale now for $11.99 a piece and I just ordered two more of them as well as some Wipe-out. From what several of the guys have said on this forum the Wipe-out is also a good product. I intend to find out. I relate to your delema with soooo many products and soooo much advice it is hard to make a decision. Keep shooting and have fun.cochran said:
Bore snakes are fine for field cleaning of bores. They will not get down and clean the really hard crusted carbon or gilding metal fouling that regular cleaning with solvents, brushes, patches and elbow grease will remove.
You CAN clean from the muzzle if you're very careful with inserting the rod and making sure it doesn't rub the crown when stroking back and forth. A muzzle guard/guide is well worth the money for this purpose. They can be purchased or made simply by having a bushing on the rod that allows the rod to slip through and will taper fit into the muzzle sufficiently to prevent touching of the rod.
Once I've removed most of the carbon fouling and am down to just the copper fouling, Wipe-Out is applied to the bore and allowed to do it's thing removing the copper.
You CAN clean from the muzzle if you're very careful with inserting the rod and making sure it doesn't rub the crown when stroking back and forth. A muzzle guard/guide is well worth the money for this purpose. They can be purchased or made simply by having a bushing on the rod that allows the rod to slip through and will taper fit into the muzzle sufficiently to prevent touching of the rod.
Once I've removed most of the carbon fouling and am down to just the copper fouling, Wipe-Out is applied to the bore and allowed to do it's thing removing the copper.
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