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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All:

I have a short barreled Sig 716 LR (AR-10) in .308 Win (7.62x51) and it has a 12.5 inch barrel. I want to use it to hunt hogs and deer among other things and wondered if anyone had advice on the best bullet weight for this short barrel. I know I'll have to find the right cartridge that the gun likes and I generally like heavy for caliber bullets but wanted some thoughts from folks who "messed with" this topic in real life if possible related to hunting. I would ultimately like to shoot out to 300 yds. or so if it will group. Thoughts? Thanks!
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Wear earplugs and muffs, for one.

You might want to see what velocities you get. I have no idea if you can keep bullets over 2,000fps very far from the muzzle, and that's generally about the usual threshold of expansion. Ballistic tips might work OK.

Good luck, but I don't think that your gun will make a very effective 300 yard hunting rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks MikeG. Haven't had it to the range yet but the web says it'll hold 2400 to 2500 for 168 gr. at the muzzle. We shall see! I'll report back next week and hope to get other's thoughts too.
 

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12.5" barrel on a rifle? Is that even legal?

Don't tell me, it has a muzzle brake too? Like MikeG said wear your ear plugs (and sunglasses)!

Just need to get it out on the range then in the field and let us know your results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
'Merica Baby! I'll let you know... I put a "sound forward" brake on it and ultimately will put a "silencer". Probably will be fun to make a big fireball at sunset.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Hi All:

1) I have a short barreled Sig 716 LR (AR-10) in .308 Win (7.62x51) and it has a 12.5 inch barrel. I want to use it to hunt hogs and deer among other things and wondered if anyone had advice on the best bullet weight for this short barrel.
2) I know I'll have to find the right cartridge that the gun likes and I generally like heavy for caliber bullets but wanted some thoughts from folks who "messed with" this topic in real life if possible related to hunting.
3) I would ultimately like to shoot out to 300 yds. or so if it will group. Thoughts? Thanks!
Thanks MikeG. Haven't had it to the range yet but the web says it'll hold 2400 to 2500 for 168 gr. at the muzzle. We shall see! I'll report back next week and hope to get other's thoughts too.
MikeG has you a great start, lets clear-up some terminology for you.

1) The cartridge is a 308, or 7.62 NATO. There is no "Best", but if you like heavy stuff, I would suggest a round nose, or older SP that is a cup-N-core bullet. "Bonded", monometal, Hunting HP's, and newer tipped bullets *Typically* have a velocity minimum of 1,800 fps. The softer, older ones CAN be as low as 1,200 fps.
2) You already know the cartridge, its a 308, or NATO chamber. The load or combination for a load that it likes is another story. What is the twist rate? If it is a 10-twist, that would be better. That said, typically you REALLY want a full two rotations in the bore before it leaves the muzzle. Less than that can be a bit dodgy on accuracy.
3) Shooting to that distance in theory should be no issue. Hunting velocities, and groups is another story about practicality. That can only be determined by you.

Yes, definitely wear very good ear protection, and good luck!


**** EDIT*****
You beat me to it in the reply. Back to the number of turns before the bullet exits. No suppressor company that I'm aware of, including the F.A. rated cans; will warranty a rifle with that little twist. So when you bash the baffles, you are on your own.
 

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12.5" barrel on a rifle? Is that even legal?

Don't tell me, it has a muzzle brake too? Like MikeG said wear your ear plugs (and sunglasses)!

Just need to get it out on the range then in the field and let us know your results.
It's legal in most states if you file all the paperwork and wait like 9 months for the ATF to tell you it's okay to swap barrels or take your new Short barreled rifle home. Same purchase process as a machine gun or a sound suppressor.

A SBR (Short Barrel Rifle) is a little trickier than a sound suppressor. It's a lot harder to deal with the legal parts. Essentially it's a pain if you ever plan to move or travel with the rifle. I've got an AR15 lower that is awaiting a form 1 approval for a Short Barrel Rifle upper to go on it. It's more of a range toy for me and I won't use it for anything else.

I don't want to imagine what a 12" .308 sounds like with a muzzle brake. I've heard a lot of Short Barrel 5.56's and it definatley warrants the use of a sound suppressor...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Excellent thought with the older/softer stuff for the reduced velocity this machine will produce! It is a 1/10 twist. I can't wait to try it and measure velocity as well as accuracy with different weights. I'm sticking with 308 to be clear. Not going to add that NATO complication can cost, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To clarify an additional point and add to the recent post and in my case... this is a pistol. It left the Sig factory as a pistol and has the Sig pistol brace so doesn't fall under NFA control or require a tax stamp or waiting. I will shoot it off a rest and my cheek (not shoulder) for hunting or as a traditional pistol-hold with a good rest.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Be cautious with a suppressor. Baffle strikes are not cheap/fun, Funny if not yours, but not fun when they are your issue......:eek:

As luck would have it, here is a similar machine in that caliber with said strike...

https://youtu.be/GQ-KG1odvLs
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Holy Schnickies! Maybe I'll wear ear protection instead. I will check for bullet stability prior to any suppressor purchase for this rig to be sure!
 

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Be cautious with a suppressor. Baffle strikes are not cheap/fun, Funny if not yours, but not fun when they are your issue......:eek:

As luck would have it, here is a similar machine in that caliber with said strike...

https://youtu.be/GQ-KG1odvLs
I would be sooo upset... I'm waiting on my cans still but it should be sometime soon now. I'll be running 5.56, 6.8, and .308 through it. Mostly 5.56. I could not imagine how crappy that must feel.

It was kind of funny though.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Yes, Definitely cause for some Un-collegiate language.....

Watched a Form-1 yardsale just a few weeks ago in fact. I know the guy somewhat, and how much effort he put into it. But still, difficult not to laugh at the situation being a spectator...:D:eek:
 

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Be cautious with a suppressor. Baffle strikes are not cheap/fun, Funny if not yours, but not fun when they are your issue......:eek:

As luck would have it, here is a similar machine in that caliber with said strike...

https://youtu.be/GQ-KG1odvLs
There was a definite ricochet sound the shot before it blew off, which I suppose should have been a hint that something was about to happen. I can't imagine how bad he must feel.
Kind of like this guy's can......................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDk1lbPTPPg
 

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Hi All:

I have a short barreled Sig 716 LR (AR-10) in .308 Win (7.62x51) and it has a 12.5 inch barrel. I want to use it to hunt hogs and deer among other things and wondered if anyone had advice on the best bullet weight for this short barrel. I know I'll have to find the right cartridge that the gun likes and I generally like heavy for caliber bullets but wanted some thoughts from folks who "messed with" this topic in real life if possible related to hunting. I would ultimately like to shoot out to 300 yds. or so if it will group. Thoughts? Thanks!
if you're going to shoot 300yds, get a longer barrel. But at normal ranges under 200yds, I'd look to the tried and true 30-30 bullets. They have been killing critters for over a century at the lower velocities you will see with your gun.

My Rock River 308 LOVES 170gr Speer Flatnose bullets over Rel-15. A friend uses the 170gr Sierra over win 760 for his son's 308 at about 2500fps. Kills deer stone dead.

My Remington 750 with it's 18" barrel loves the 150gr Hornady RN over 3031.

Both bullets are in the 2500-2600fps range but they are designed to work way down to velocities like 1500fps.

I have no doubt that a 30-30 bullet will work for your gun and hunting needs.
 

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I would guess a flatnosed bullet would have some feeding problems in an AR platform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I do like the heavy bullet and "softer" bullet thoughts for the lower velocities.

One of the purposes for the purchase (other than fun shooting hogs/deer close with it) is to hunt deer in a shotgun-slug and handgun-only area. This is a 308 pistol with 12.5" barrel so I want to find the right cartridge(s) for velocity, accuracy, and on-game performance.

Only one brief range session so far to rough-sight-in one of the scopes that produced on hole for 3 shots at short range so I'm hopeful... I'll report back as progress is made and I really appreciate the thoughts All!
 

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Not my Rock River Arms LAR-8. eats them like a fat kid eating skittles.
:D:D:D: Bandit, Now THAT'S a visual! :D:D:D


I do like the heavy bullet and "softer" bullet thoughts for the lower velocities.

One of the purposes for the purchase (other than fun shooting hogs/deer close with it) is to hunt deer in a shotgun-slug and handgun-only area. This is a 308 pistol with 12.5" barrel so I want to find the right cartridge(s) for velocity, accuracy, and on-game performance.

Only one brief range session so far to rough-sight-in one of the scopes that produced on hole for 3 shots at short range so I'm hopeful... I'll report back as progress is made and I really appreciate the thoughts All!
Sounds like a plan, but keep in mind that most areas I've hunted that were limited to shotties and pistols were for mostly short-range hunting scenarios, so a 30 cal pistol might be a great one for this if you can find the right ammo. But, making less than 1 1/4 revolutions before exiting the barrel, please don't plan on it having 300 yd MOA.

I have to agree about the softer C&C bullets and the 170 grain 30-30 bullets. You might even consider some of the even lighter projectiles like the ones used in the reduced recoil ammo such as 308 & 30-06 Hornandy Custom Lite ammo that uses the 125 gr SST. Loads with this weight bullet may not cause the action to cycle properly, but you should only need one shot and can then use the charging handle. These bullets are designed for lower impact speeds. If your web-info says a 165 gr should spit out at 24-2500 fps, then a 125 gr SST could possibly come out at around 25-2600 fps, although the 308 Lite ammo shows 2675 out of a standard length rifle barrel. Your mileage may vary.
 

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Sounds like a lot of people here have little faith in the 308 out of a 12.5 barrel. I can tell you all from experience with my 12.5" cmmg barreled "pistol" that 300 yards is no problem at all. I get 2700fps with my 130gr Barnes ttsx handloads and 2500fps with my 150gr hornady interlock handloads. That's more than enough velocity for any hoofed animal in north america. Accuracy is sub moa all the way out to 400 yds. You don't need special soft bullets. I use a suppressor on mine and find that the setup makes the perfect handy deer/hog gun that doesn't hurt the ears. People who have never tried this often compare a short 308 to an AK47. Look at the numbers and think again.
 
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