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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Discussion Starter #1
OK, now that I have finally figured out what my Turk is, it's time to think about sporterizing it.

I need a 'medium' length (OAL = 3.150") cartridge for this gun, with a 0.473" case head dimension. And it's a small-ring mauser so I'd like to keep pressures down.

So.... what's the best bang for the buck? I'm thinking something based on the 57mm length Mauser cartridges, ie. 6.5x57, 7x57, 8x57, etc. Currently it's 8mm but unless it shoots really well, I'm going to rebarrel it. Magazine won't accomodate anything longer.

I already have a 257 Roberts in a modern sporter, and a 6.5x55 Swede in a '96 infantry rifle. So neither of those two is a strong candidate in my mind.

Any hunting experience with the 7x57, 8x57, or 9(.3?)x57? I'm kind of intrigued by the 8mm, seems like I could get some reasonable performance at moderate pressures, say a 180gr. bullet at 2400-2500fps or a 200gr bullet at 2300fps (those aren't top end 8mm loads but what I'd be comfortable with in that gun).

???????????????????????????
 

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Nawth East Moderatah
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Mike,
How about rebarreled to a .308??? The case is close to 8x57mm. It's about as medium as they come, and could be loaded even better if you had to...
Loaded with a 165 it's 2.810" OAL
Chris~
 

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Beartooth Regular
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Mike,
Since this is kind of a hobby gun for you, I think that 9.3 would be pretty interesting. Should make a good pig-sticker! Plus lots of bullet base to keep pressures down. ID
 

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Beartooth Regular
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I don't know Mike. You've got a lot of great options. Since you already have a 257 and 6.5, I'd go for something in the 8mm or 9.3 range. 9.3 would kinda neat, I guess, but with the 57mm case restrictions, I don't think any performance improvement would be realized over the 8mm flavor. There's plenty of good 8mm bullets on the market these days, too. What about a 338x57mm? Really close to the '06 version and more than adequate weights of bullets to play around with.

My vote would go to the 338x57mm. Can you include inches and millimeters in a cartridge description?

Let us know what you decide.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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That 8mm sounds interesting in and of itself. Cast bullets would be fun in it too.

Is that a .318 or .323?

Funny you mention this caliber because I just got finished reading an old Handloader article on modern "brush loads" and the gent said if he was just getting into the deer hunting game, he would opt for an 8mm sporter and live happily ever after.

If you had the action length, you could have it reamed to an 8mm'06 just for brass availability. You could neck up 7X57 brass though.

Now I'm intrigued. Send it up here. I'll trade you a nice rebarrelled 1916 Mauser in 308 CETME. (Grin)

Regards
 

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Beartooth Regular
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I rather like alyeska's idea of a .338x57. If you can swollow the tariff for custom dies, it should be super for hogs and larger game.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Discussion Starter #8
Hmmmm..... very interesting! I had considered the 9.3x57, as I wasn't really excited about any wildcats, but that .338x57 sounds like it could be useful. With the bore just a bit larger than an 8mm, you have some useful information about starting loads as well (from the 8x57mm data).

Also .35x57 would be interesting, not really all that different than 9.3x57, but component bullets would be easier to find.

I had wanted to deliberately stay away from cartridges based on the .308 case, as most of them have been commercialized AND there is lots of 50,000CUP ammo floating around. Just as soon have a more obscure cartridge to reduce the likelyhood of someone firing something really potent in a 104 year old action.

As for dies, I would not be thrilled to pay a lot, so I think that I would go the Marshall Stanton round, after fireforming, use the Lee Collet sizing die. I know how to cut them down for a shorter caliber so just get a 338 Win Mag version and go from there. Should the shoulders need set back, a standard 8x57 should suffice, or heck, just pitch'em. I've got tons of '06 brass to form cases with. So then the only major expense is a reamer, and I bet that a .338-06 reamer could be put to work for that.

Ray, it's a .323 bore (one of the first things that I checked). It started life out as a 7x53mm (not 57) from what I have read so even a 57mm case length is pushing it. Apparently the Turks rebarreled everything that wasn't already 8x57 in the 1930s, no doubt concerned about the political state in Europe at the time. Can't say I blame them.

You guys are full of good ideas, shouldn't have asked, now you are going to drag me down the slippery slope of wildcatting!
 

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Beartooth Regular
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Mike,
If I remember correctly, you already shoot a 338 Winny? That must mean you have a couple hundred bullets of different weights of 338's lying around just begging to be loaded up. I can hear them in their little boxes now, pick me, pick me!!! While it wouldn't exactly be a 338/06, it would be a little more utilitarian than say the 338/08, which has had a lot of praise. Ought to be great piggy medicine. Probably be wicked with some 200 grain powerpoints or the like.

Having said that, if it shoots well as an 8, I'd shoot it till I tired of that. I had an 8mm Rem Mag once and could not find fault with the cartridge or bullets (the rifle on the other hand couldn't keep the stock from splitting).

Another thought would be to go down to a 24 or 22 caliber. Might make excellent coyote and other varmint fodder.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Discussion Starter #10
I am going to try the current barrel, cut off to about 22"-24", before I get too carried away. If it shoots, great, but it's an old military bore so who knows. On the other hand my Swede will give you a fright looking down the barrel but it sure does shoot.

I ruled out the 22 & 24 cal, don't really know why, except that I think of those as more high-intensity varmit rounds, and I may keep this rifle with open sights. I already have a .22-250 anyway. 6mm Rem would certainly be easy .... but who wants easy???? .35 Rem is another interesting choice, if it would feed, that way I don't have to worry about high-pressure factory ammo getting in the gun. But the 336 covers that one.

Yep, those .338's are just begging for a trip to the range.....
 

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Beartooth Regular
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G-man,

I have an excellent article on the 8mm by Ken Waters if you would like to see it. Excellent info and load data and insights on it's use and history.

Let me know.

Regards
 

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For a combination of power, low recoil, flat trajectory and quality bullet selection the winner is: 7X57 hands down (in my book). Its been around since 1892 and used on everything from elephants to groundhogs.

It duplicates the ballistics of the venerable 7-08 at lower pressure and even less recoil, treading closely on the heels of the 280 and 270. It is commercially loaded by ALL domestic and most foreign manufacturers.

To quote Frank C. Barnes in "Cartridges of the World", 9th ed;

"The 7X57 Mauser has proven to be one of the best all-around sporting rounds ever developed. It is particularrly useful in light weight rifles because it delivers good killing power with moderate recoil. It has been used successfully on every species of big game on earth".

Larry Potterfield, CEO of Midway USA;

"one of the world's few perfect cartridges - a perfect 10".

These accolades are fully supported by numbers as well - the 7X57 matches the ballistics of the 30-06 by shooting bullets of equal sectional density to the same velocity. Although 15% lighter, the 7MM bullets invariably have a higher ballistic coefficient. This means that the 06 starts out with a 15% energy advantage, but this difference approaches zero at 300 yards.

The 7X57 does all this at a lower chamber pressure with less powder and significantly less recoil the the '06.

Its the original "little big man" of cartridges, and thrives on H, AA and IMR 4350 with any of today's wonderful 7MM bullets.

Have I made my case?
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Discussion Starter #13
Loader,

You have. 7x57 is definitely under consideration, especially if I could find a decent military barrel for cheap.

Ray, thanks, I do have the big compendium of Pet Loads, I assume this is what you are talking about.

I believe that Al Miller said in one of his cartridge write-ups, possibly in one of the older Nosler manuals, that anybody who considers the 8x57mm a popgun has never dodged bullets from one! I'll take his word on that.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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Mike and Loader,
I have a 7x57 and consider it to be fantastic. I really enjoy mine and it fits the rifle I have so chambered (Ruger No.1 RSI) and my use for it like a glove. So much so, in fact, I'm considering it to go to Africa with me (and my 338) in a couple of years. There's not much the little Mauser won't handle. I wouldn't be as bold with it as WDM Bell, but wouldn't have any qualms taking plainsgame with it. It deals quite a blow to caribou and, at least, smallish Alaskan moose.

I figured since you already had the 257 and 6.5, though, there's probably not much the 7 would do that these two won't though, especially your 6.5 (I would think with the older action, the 6.5 and 7 would be duplicative).

Fun stuff.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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I agree that the 7X57 is an excellent cartridge. Only thing is that it is an "in-between" length, too long for a short action so it needs an '06 action length. If I'm getting an '06 action length, I'll take the 280 Remington over it. Another underated, extremely versatile, cartridge.

Regards
 

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Beartooth Regular
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Ya' know alyeska, you'd better quit talking about that RSI of yours. A 7mm has been calling me for a while now and you're not making it any easier. :D

Seriously though, I think there are few cartridges significantly better than it for medium to medium/largish game. It just seemed like Mike had that regime pretty well covered already. Starting from scratch, I've suggested the 7x57 many a time.
 

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I don't think that the "in between" COL is a problem either. A good cartridge should always dictate action length, rather than the other way around. Look at Sako, they do exactly that and are so smooth and well designed they make our domestic actions seem like car jacks (strong, accurate car jacks). OOOOH!...I just flashed on a Finnlight in 7X57....
 

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I would try shooting the 8x57 as is. I have one and it shoots great. I first tried the 150 grain bullets and IMR 4064 with poor results, but when I tried the 196g Norma bullets it shot all bullets into less than 1 inch. The 170g Hornadys also shoot into that 1", and are a lot better bullet than the Norma's. I shot a nice fat doe with it this fall and am very pleased with the results.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Discussion Starter #20
Can you be more specific about the performance of the 170gr. Hornady? Muzzle velocity (even if estimated), distance, shot placement, penetration, wound channel, how did the deer react and how far did it go, did you recover the bullet?

Inquiring minds want to know! Seriously this would be very helpful information if I keep the 8x57 barrel, which I probably will, if it shoots well enough.
 
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