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Hello everyone,

Hear is my problem,
I have wanted and or planned to buy a 444 model 94 for a couple of years, as I thought it would be a great big brother for my 375 94. Then, I found out about the stopping of production for the traditional big bore, which is what I wanted. Then I decided to go to my local shop, and order one while I still can, when it happened.......
I saw the new Marlin cowboy gun in 45-70 with the 26" octagon barrel, and full mag tube. Ah.....what a nice piece. So, here is my dilema, I can't afford both, as I am sure someone will sugget. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I do a lot of SASS shooting.

What are your thoughts fellas? How does the strength of the Marlin action compare to the Winchester, both 94BB and 86?

Any advice would be great. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Adios
Juan
 

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Juan
As far as I'm concerned it's a nonissue. The 45-70 will do anything the 444 will do then some more.
Now if some would come out with a 444 with a different rate of twist for the barrel, where longer heavier bullets could be used............
For now the 45-70 has it all and does it all well.
Jim
 

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I had both rifles (at the same time!). After a bit of soul searching, I sold the .444 and kept the lovely old 1st reissue (1971 or so) Marlin 45-70. This very likely would have gone the other way if the Marlin had been a micro-groove. My only complaint is that the Marlins are kinda heavy. Mines just a little sluggish going to the shoulder, but the triggers much better. As far as power goes, the 45-70 is just picking up steam (in a modern action and loadings), when the 444 is starting to wheeze...
----------------------------------------------------------------Bob
 

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HI , from what I have read on this forum and others "make no mistake I have no personal experience with either round" the 444 will shoot MUCH flatter than the 45-70.
     now if all your shooting is gonna be on 2500 pound animals at under 100 yds then by all means get the 45-70.
  however if some of your shooting is gonna be the average moose elk most probably DEER then Thge 444 will give you a much flatter trajectory .
   From what I understand the 45-70 handles 400-425 bullets extremely well while the 444 is really at the upper limits with.
      a 400 grain bullet " some say that is too heavy"
Concerning the winchester Big bore it is" supposed " to be capable of handling 50,000 psi loads whereas the Marlin is best at or around 40,000 psi.
   Of course we are talking about the Marlin compared to the big bore. Talk about the WI1886 in a new gun and you are talking a whole lot stronger gun than either the standard Marlin or the Win BIG bORE.
AS several members have pointed out to me in other conversations I imagine a 300 to 350 at around 2000fps is probably gonna be more than I want to stand behind and squeexe the trigger on !!
 Again figure out what you will use the gun for , how important bullet weight  VS trajectory is for your type of hunting and then go from there. Either on will kill ANYTHING IN north america and Probably africa too !
   Just my opinion based on others experience .
  Have a good day , Craig
 

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I've got both, and like the 444 more. I shoot 290 BTLFN @ 2300 with great accuracy and power. Have'nt killed any big game with it yet. I carry the 444 hiking around the mountains here hoping to avoid one of those #### grizzly bears, I am probably going to convert the 45/70 to 50 Alaskan so I can back flip some #### bear that needs his attitude adjusted. Both of these are Marlins, the 444 is first or second year production and the 45/70 has that stupid safety that I don't trust. The last thing in my peabrain with a charging bear coming is to remember to check the safety. I would really enjoy a group of lawyers and politicians to hike some of our trails and enjoy stepping over bear scat  and tracks that drawf my size 13 boots. Maybe they could sustain a charge and try to take off the #### safety and cock the hammer and find the sights and place them on animal thats moving faster than their mind can comprehend. I would guess maybe we would see some changes, but the best we can hope for is to send bears and wolves to central park and downtown lost angels to eat gangs and their politicians. Had to ramble on about that, either cartridge is a wonderful thing, probably for your CAS the 45/70 would be the better choice.  And either would be fine for pig hunting in kalifornia. I'll try to send your stock this week. Good luck
 

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Juan,

For your purposes I'd opt for the .45-70 in Cowboy configuration. It will be much more in keeping with the SASS spirit of things. It will also perform beautifully in the hunting woods.

If you were looking for a hunting arm alone, I would not hesitate suggesting the 444P Outfitter. It is short, lightweight, extremely handy, yet packs the ballistics of the .405 Winchester that Theodore Roosevelt and Stewart Edward White thought "simply bully" for lion and such. I enjoy mine like very few other rifles I've owned.

Moose, don't feel alone in your condemnation of that stupid safety. Last year I heard the loudest, bone-chilling "click" as I squeezed on a five-point buck. I've never had buck fever, yet forgot about this lawyer-induced safety. Thank goodness it wasn't a griz coming the other way!
 

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Hey Bill,

Did you see the post by Ray Floyd on the plug he got to remove that cross bolt safety. Think it's in the Gunsmith section.


Regards,

:cool:
 

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Contender,

Yes I saw Ray Floyd's post and intend to do so when my Outfitter returns from Marlin. It had a bit of feeding problem so it's going back for inspection this week.
 

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I really like my Marlin 444P Outfitter. It's easy to carry and it's quick to the shoulder. I'm getting an avg. of 2115 fps with the 300 grain Hornady XTP and IMR-4198, group size averages 1.6 inches at 50 yards with the factory iron sights. Now I'm going to work up a load using Beartooths new 300 grain WFNGC bullet and see what it will do with cast bullets. I might be able to break 2200 fps with the cast bullets.
 

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the only thing I would say is  the ####   with either around, if you really want a hard-hit and round I would go with the 50 Alaskan.  If you look at the facts you'll see you can  launch a heavier round at a higher velocity  than either  the 444 Marlon or the 4570.  The 50 Alaskan superior  to either round.  Thank you,  Kevin
 

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Kevin,

Not to be disrespectfull, but, in the best of "grizzly" circumstances, the shot placement plays a far bigger part than shot "power". If, in fact, the first does not do the job, the followup had better be quick. If those fail, you had best have a small D/A strapped tightly to your torso in hopes you can still get your hand on it while be shaken like a dying rat in a Terriers jaws!

I purchased a Marlin GG in 45/70 last spring and used it durring this years guiding seasons. While I am still pretty new to the whole gunpowder scene, I am convinced that even with a fairly mild load the 45/70 will make a long and large hole in bone and flesh without causing undue stress to my flinch glands.

Juan,

I am still dinking around with loadings for the Grand Ol' Lady...there are alot of them. Perhaps to be expected from a hunnert plus year old cartrage ;*)

Perhaps if I owned a .44Mag I would have considered the .444 so as to utilize a few components for reloading.

I have hopes of taking a few varmints this winter with the GG and a mockup of the old homeguard load of three roundballs over some bullseye. I think they will be just the ticket for moonlit nights in thick brush. (Alaska allows hunting at night provided one does not use artificial light. A full moon and snow make for some great nocturnal activities)

I would be curious as to what has transpired since you posted in May. The Cowboy? Almost as gracefull as a handmade longbow ;*)

Scotty/North Pole, AK
 

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I WOULD GO 45/70, IF YA GOT A 375...WHAT ARE YOU HUNTING THAT YOU NEED A 45/70 FOR ? IF YA CANT AFFORD IT , WHATS THE POINT? SELL THE 375 AND GET A 45/70? I LIKE THE LATEST MARLIN LEVER OFFERINGS WITH BALLARD RIFLING. LESS MOVING PARTS THAN WIN. I THINK BOTH NEW MARLIN AND NEW WINCHESTERS ARE SIMULAR IN THE STRENGTH DEPARTMENT.
 
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