Shooters Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi

I moved to Perth from Ireland a few months ago and I am currently in the process of joining a clay pigeon shooting club. But I am curious to know is there any birds that can be shot legally in WA? I know there are no pheasants out here and that duck shooting is illegal. Is there any birds that can be hunted and shot?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
That's a no! But, permission can be obtained from DPaW to cull nusanse birds, usually galars and corellas. Gun clubs go out and do it for free.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
288 Posts
Back

Back when duck huntin' was still legal - we'd go out into the crops just after harvest and hunt the quail over dogs. They eat a lot of the wheat grain that drops to the ground during harvest.

Shooting them off the comb of the harvester white it's still harvesting is considered "unsporting" and it makes a mess of the paintwork on the comb! (They have a bad habit of flying up out of the crop and landing on the harvester open front comb - all sitting there in a neat straight row - a quick shot out the cab window would often get 20 or more in one shot...). ;)

Everything's illegal now in the wild west, BUT there's no bag limits on wildlife officers... ;)

Still plenty of ducks on the farm dams & lots of foxes in the crops to shoot that are hunting those quail also.

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
Hello:
Whats the reason for no duck or qail hunting in WA ?
Boy im reading about no hunt this or cant own gun and no gun rulings across the usa that im glad i live in iowa.
Head Shot
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
288 Posts
Gun control

The unspoken reason for ending duck hunting (and thus quail as well) is about restricting Gun Control.

After the Port Arthur False Flag attack, we were successfully stripped of most of our guns as many would know.

One of the requirements for gun licenses is providing written proof of permission to shoot on private property for the purpose of pest (introduced feral animals) eradication. Shooting anything 'native' was outlawed under Wild Life Act amendments, and Ducks (and quail) went legislatively from "game species" status, to "protected native animal" status.

So the ONLY way you can own a licensed firearm here apart from club membership and shooting at rifle ranges / shotgun clubs/clay targets is if you have written permission from the owner of the land here in West Oz at least.

In the past people could buy a "duck hunting license" that gave them the legal right to hunt game (ducks) on un-vested crown land.

Because that constituted permission to carry a firearm on land - many used it with Police as their "letter of authority to hunt" to apply for and obtain a firearms license.

Now that Ducks are native animals and fully protected, and also now that all un-vested crown land has deliberately been vested for some purpose to prevent it being "claimed" under the native title act ....post "Eddie Mabo" high court decision, - the ONLY place you can hunt now is on private freehold farms & you need 3 letters from 3 such private property land holders to get a license for a firearm.

And of course you can only hunt introduced feral non native animals.

There are exceptions.

You can shoot Kangaroos if your a licensed roo culler under a damage permit / tail tag system - something that's strictly policed by the wildlife authorities - but you can only shoot them again, when they encroach onto private property to damage crops - not when they are on state owned forested lands etc.

You CAN get limited damage permits to shoot ducks on farm dams, if they are fouling the water so its unsuitable for livestock to drink. But this also is strictly controlled - the wildlife officer comes out and assesses the degree of the problem, and issues a permit to take x number of ducks over so many days with 2 or 3 nominated people.

Its designed to reduce the numbers a little and get them to move on somewhere else.

It's NOT designed to be a be duck hunting system for private property owners to sell the right to shoot a few ducks...

You can cull certain native birds (Emu's Gallahs etc) where they damage crops - again under a damage permit system that's strictly regulated.

It's a far from perfect system... there are a zillion moral ethical problems with the system you could metaphorically drive a truck thru, but its the system that has evolved.

It suits the regulatory authorities!.

We used to have duck seasons and also our fair share of duck hunting protesters (Google "Lauri Levy and ducks"). The wildlife officers were the meat in the sandwich...

So the minority save the ducks crowd won by default.

And now we have little that is legally hunt-able these days... whistle up a few foxes on a farm, shoot a few rabbits (those that didn't die out from Myxomatosis or Calici virus).

Now there's a big push to thin the ranks of the 20 million feral cats in oz that each eat 3 a day of our native ground and tree dwelling fauna.
But again they want to develop bio control or aerial bating strategy, - not any kind of hunting / scalp / bounty system!.

It's why we have a "cull pests by spotlight from the back of a ute (pickup truck) at night" mentality here, and no real game species hunting ethic of any kind.

Many of the deliberate deer releases for e.g. have had pig doggers choose to run down with dogs and shoot the only stag/buck released with the 4 or 5 females (does /hinds) within a week or fortnight of release and before they even get to mate once over the females.

So the herd founders and the balance of the does hinds get pig dogged and shot within say 12 months.

Then these same guys whinge and whine that we have no hunt-able deer herds here in the west.

Attempts have been made to establish deer in West Oz since 1898 roughly with the formation of the royal acclimatization society and various fallow & red deer releases down at Augusta, Reds at Pinjarra, Blackbuck Antelope up east of Geraldton and so on.

In essence most West Aussies are shooters not hunters.

It's how things have evolved.
It would take a generational change to alter it.
It would also take large legislative changes to undo all the harm that's been done to our historical fundamental freedoms in relation to firearms ownership and licensing.
When you look at the scale of the Port Arthur Massacre False Flag Attack arrayed against us... I'd say our chances of achieving anything like that are pretty slim at best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
Hello:
Wow i been reading about all the you cant do or own this and it gets right down to looking like the govt you have that you just about cant own land since the crown wont allow guns and looks like no hunts eigther.
Sure does make a person feel fortunate to be able to hunt on public and private ground here in the USA.
Hope things improve for you over there as its sounding like most wont even know hunting or shooting sports.
Head Shot
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
288 Posts
It's got continually tougher.

It's gotten continually tougher - over time!.

In my early days as a Wildlife Officer - I used to issue Duck Hunting Licenses.

I also hunted ducks and quail.

I was fortunate I guess - the sad thing is I can no longer share that experience with my now grown sons (or in time my 2 grandsons for e.g.).

Now we have things like feral cat plagues wiping out our native ground dwelling and tree dwelling fauna.

To Whit:

Dear "Redacted" (Anne Shoots),

Thank you for your submission on the draft national Threat abatement plan for predation by feral cats. We appreciate your interest in the subject and the time you have taken to respond. We will take your comments into consideration as we revised the draft document and will let you know when the final threat abatement plan is released.
Regards

Julie (Redacted by me)
Environmental Biosecurity Section
Department of the Environment
And this is what Julie got told by me.

In the early 1990's, in my role as a Wildlife Officer with the WA Dept CALM - I filmed a TV special for the then DEPT CALM with Harry Butler in the WA Southwest Jarrah forests... During filming we went into the Nannup Rubbish tip at night with camera and spotlight! Feral cats everywhere, heck one old lady from town was feeding them cat food every day & they were breeding up out of control.
Back then (so ~20 years ago) Harry Butler said on camera that there were approximately 20 million feral cats in Australia!.
20 years later, this article says scientists estimate there are approximately 20 million feral cats in Australia.
So - I don't see the problem - the feral population has obviously plateaued!. (Yeah that's a tongue in cheek / sarcasm comment).

Seriously tho, feral cat eradication is next to impossible save some kind of fatal feline virus (which would then wipe out domestic cats).

They are such good hunters they mostly don't eat carrion. They prefer to hunt their food live, and they are adept enough hunters that mostly they succeed.

I also carried out fauna trapping programs for CALM in those same southwest forests and we caught very few feral cats for this exact reason, the cats won't enter a trap for dead food (even fish based cat food) - they would sooner catch something alive.

This same trait means – it’s almost impossible to poison them with baits.

We have dropped aerial 1080 baits (with dried roo meat) across the southwest forests for decades now to control spring fox cub dispersal, yet the feral cat population is seemingly not affected.

I've also spent years out supervising pro roo shooters again for CALM in my role as Wildlife officer with them, and you do seldom see or shoot feral cats. They are bloody sneaky creatures.

I used to control the feral cats at the Nannup tip at night for CALM and with approval of the local shire, who owned the tip!

The "MOST EFFECTIVE METHOD" is the same one the US hunters evolved / employ for catching/hunting other larger feline species like mountain lions/puma etc and that is basically using trained dogs to chase the cats up a tree, and dust them with a shotgun & spotlight at night.

One 5 minute visit to the tip would yield 6 or more cats in one tree with 2 dogs.

What dog doesn't love to chase cats?
What do cats do when chased by a dog?
Yep - run up a tree!
Simple, shine the spot light up the tree and blow the cats out of the tree with a 12 gauge!.
There simply IS no other cost and time effective method - trapping and poisoning don't work - been there (with the best of them) and done it - it simply don't work.

This was one of a few we did catch in a Sheffield wire trap over quite a few years trapping.
I shot more cats than that, in one night, at the tip with 2 dogs running the cats up trees.
Trapping and poisoning just don't work with cats, it’s not time or cost effective as a control method.
No reason PAW / DEC call em what you will couldn't run a volunteer cat eradication program involving shooters and dogs just like they do with the volunteer pig eradication program.
The idiots in charge will never listen and as a result the cats will continue to decimate our ground and tree dwelling native fauna.
20 plus years and nothings changed.
Our country’s hard up fiscally – you will never get the $ to control cats by any other method than a bounty and allowing volunteers with dogs to tree cats & shoot them.
The problem with that?
You have to issue permits to carry fire arms on state forest and or national parks.
Once you do that – anyone can apply and when they get a permit to carry a firearm on govt land –it’s like the old duck hunting licenses – that proves the Applicant with prof of permission to shoot on land from the landowner, so they can then use it to apply for a firearms license and satisfy the WAPOL requirement of written approval to shoot, from a land owner (in this case the state govt) and thus every man and his dog can qualify for a firearms license by volunteering to shoot on govt land to control cats.
We know the Fed govt don’t want Australians to have firearms… hence this will never fly.
Thus feral cats will continue to thrive without bio control methods.
Ohh and this as well.

Thank you Julie - I wish you the very best with it.
Having consulted widely to state and federal Govts on environmental matters over a long career - an Abatement plan is a laudable step towards a solution - "those who fail to plan - plan to fail!".
With that said - the best laid plans of mice and men amount to nowt without the political will and resources to implement a plan!.
This world of ours is headed into a international currency crisis / fiscal melt down, probably within 6 months that will make the 1920/30's great depression seem like a picnic!
Australia won't be immune unfortunately. We might even fare better than some other nations, BUT when the rest of the world sneezes, we catch a cold!.
The initial signs of impending doom are already evident. Our economy's tanking, world resource prices are crashing as demand dries up!
This country is going to be obsessed with feeding our 20 million citizens - keeping them gainfully employed and roofs over their heads!
There will be no discretionary spending available to fund such programs as a feral cat abatement.
Perhaps one possibility might be to link welfare payments to a bounty system of cat scalps... those unemployed can go out and remove feral cats from the environment, in return for their welfare payment in the form of cat scalps bounty!.
Something similar existed in the last great depression a century ago with dingo trappers (doggers as they were called).
Singapore essentially wiped out the house fly by requiring every citizen to kill a minimum of 10 flys a day etc.
It can be done but it requires the motivation.
Starvation is a great motivator.
I wish you well with the abatement plan...
I remain a little cynical - like I said Harry Butler & I were singing this message to this country on TV at least 20 years ago - and we are JUST now, working on yet another feral cat abatement plan?
Sometimes i think that we as a nation spend way to much on talking about what needs to be done - (i.e planning and public political posturing) and way too little on actual "on the ground" actions.
The results with rabbits of both myxomatosis and calici virus has proven that Bio Controls are the ONLY cost effective control method for plague proportion feral animal control problems like this one.
You know - IF, you could somehow genetically engineer a species of Feral Cat, that ONLY predated on Cane Toads - & ate them with relish and died as a result... you could use one plague proportion pests like Feral cats to wipe out the dreaded cane toad and in doing so self eliminate the cats as well!.
Best of luck with it Julie - I certainly hope you all prove me wrong.
After 20 + years not much has changed other than lots of people writing zillions of words about the problem.
A few more people with 2 dogs and a 12 gauge - earning bounty's on feral cat scalps - might at LEAST keep the problem in check maybe until a suitable bio control method can be created.
Yours Sincerely,

Anne Shoots
The problem with feral cats predation, is we are fast losing the LAST of our unique ground dwelling native fauna like this little fella.



That's a now rare "Chudich" or spotted Native Cat of the south west variety - western quoll (Dasyurus geoffroii)

I only ever managed to catch one of these lil fellers in all the years of fauna surveying for the conservation department!

These little fellows also take a pounding from Feral Foxes and Feral cats.



He's a southern brown bandicoot (Isoodon obesulus), also known as the Quenda.

There's also a little squirrel look alike called a Phascogale - or wambengers in the local Noongar Aboriginal dialect, are carnivorous Australian marsupials of the family Dasyuridae. There are two species: the brush-tailed phascogale (Phascogale tapoatafa) and the red-tailed phascogale (Phascogale calura).

Most Australians have never seen any of these 3 species in the wild!



Feral cat control needs a national approach, says Threatened Species Commissioner - ABC Rural (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

A new national approach and co-ordinated effort is needed to control feral cats, according to the Federal Government.
This would be the very same Federal Government who took away all our guns and banned us from shooting on pretty much all govt land etc etc etc

In other words the Govt creates the problem then moans when as a consequence feral animal populations are out of control and our native wildlife is being driven to the verge of extinction as a result.

Over my albeit short 56 year life time to this point - I have literally seen it all.

I don't know that any country has it all "right".. as regards firearms ownership and feral animal control etc... some are better / worse than others.

We have nothing native that predates on feral cats or feral foxes, like mountain lions etc (depending who you believe, there's s'posedly some panthers getting about, but that's another story for another day).

Its far from a simple situation... with a simple fix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
I have read Annies posts with interest, she is correct on a number of points. One small thing is that you only require one letter, not three from a property owner to obtain a fire arm licence in this state (WA) it is not that hard. The other is that there are people permitted to operate with fire arms in the forests and parks. I for one have been doing this for about 15 years and there are other permitted groups also. The general demand for access is a bit off the track I am afraid. My group operates day and / or night with high end thermal and image intensifying NV (top end Gen 3) Yes there is a problem with ferals but it is not feasible to have open go with shooters. A problem we have at present is with illegal shooters is that they blunder into an operation at times blowing months of preparation. The same is happening with Govt research programs on pig control (which everybody seems to think is not happening) The same can happen with other shooters "legal" too. I will not go into her views previously regarding deer in the forests.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
288 Posts
Yep

Yes I do talk in generalizations because there's heaps of exceptions to the rule.

The other is that there are people permitted to operate with fire arms in the forests and parks.
Back in my wildlife days, I used to issue the permits to carry firearms in state forests, to our volunteer pig eradication program - back then it was the 'pilot program' that set up the rules for the current program that continues to today!.

No one wants to talk about the deer in our forests these days. Secret squirrel society stuff. ;)

When I did all my license applications it was 3 letters required.

Eldest lad got his first license within the last 12 months & required 3 letters from land owners.

Plods ask for 3 letters - it was in their firearms regulations.

BUT the regs aren't the act.

If you appeal the refusal of a firearm license, the presiding judge can ONLY rule based on whats is in the firearms act, not whats in the firearms regulations.

The Firearms act is the law - the regulations are the administrative manual for how Police implement the act (and in it they asked for 3 letters from land holders).

It's been a while since I applied for any licenses and I believe there's been amendments to the act & regulations recently, that I may not be 100% up to speed on!.

I do know the whole high / low power thing has changed substantially since I had to jump thru the hoops 35years ago...

But I've also sat in on, and appeared as a defense character witness even, in a few cases with WAPol firearms branch public prosecutor versus the odd guy who's run foul of the law and gone to appeal.

It seldom goes how the law act says it will..

Don't even get into fit and proper person definition under the act.... :rolleyes:

It's never as black and white as what you might think...:)
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top