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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Kosh, You have not said if you have successfully reloaded any of the brass in question, only that you have been cleaning/prepping the brass.
I indirectly said it, but could have been clearer. Sorry.
MY motivation for cleaning the primer pockets is to get them spotless with new (to me) pick-up brass, before I use them the first time, to minimize primer pocket "crud" build-up.
NORTHERMAVRICK: I believe you've misunderstood what I said about prepping three cases, thus:
You were saying that your method works quite well with 3 cases. Well and good. There is not much shooting involved, but it is fun! Try it with 200-300 cases. NOW you can get a chance to test a bit for accuracy! You get to shoot a few groups to compare...OR...you get to find out what your "meat chopper" will really do!
NO, I said that in the time it takes to READ the procedure I delineated, I can generally have 3 cases prepped, thus:
[QUOTE="Kosh75287, member:45428]Brass prep:
1.) washed/agitated in hot (~180F) Dawn dishwashing soap/Water/food-grade disodium tartrate solution.
2.) Rinsed in tap water twice.
3.) Immersed in 91% isopropanol or 95%+ acetone.
4.) Allowed to air dry.
5.) Dark brass is chucked on a spinner and polished (lightly) with #0000 steel wool.
6.) Primer pockets are cleaned with a primer pocket cleaner (NOT reamer) of some description (Lee, Lyman, Dewey, RCBS), in this case, Lee.
7.) Brass is unchucked and sorted appropriately.
It sounds like a lot, but it takes longer to read through the procedure than to prep 3 cases, thusly.
[/QUOTE]
Except for this round and my 8x57 Mauser, I tend to load in lot sizes of 50 to 200.
 

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i use a wet tumbler method after the cases are sized and deprimed. a squirt or two of dawn and a full 9mm case of lemi shine and hot water. i'll let them go about 1 1/2 - 2 hours, then i will rinse the cases off and then sit overnite on a bath towel. i do 50-100 rifle cases at a time. oh, you don't need to do 2lb of stainless steel pins, i have found that i need only about 1lb for a 4" pipe(8 and some inches long). the primer pocket cleaner has gone to wayside, because the primer pocket comes out clean.

 

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Kosh75287,

Have you removed one of the inserts or sectioned a case with one to look at it? If not, I am wondering have you mistaken the appearance of a ring crimp for the outline of an insert? An example is in the left image below. A crimp would also tend to get in the way of a standard primer pocket cleaning tool as well as make seating a new primer a little resistant until you cut or reamed or swaged it out.

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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"cool kids" being those who blindly follow celebrity, without seeking understanding, personal testing, and knowledge; for individual limitations and goals.

I wear custom made boots, which don't cause back pain for what I do. But those boots and specific cobbler aren't the only way to prevent back pain, doing what I do. 🙂

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[/QUOTE]
Kosh75287,

Have you removed one of the inserts or sectioned a case with one to look at it? If not, I am wondering have you mistaken the appearance of a ring crimp for the outline of an insert? An example is in the left image below. A crimp would also tend to get in the way of a standard primer pocket cleaning tool as well as make seating a new primer a little resistant until you cut or reamed or swaged it out.

View attachment 102495
Nick, I speculated likewise in post #16above (below) and Kosh (the OP) did not answer the question in his later postings and has yet to provide requested photos, so....???

Kosh, You have not said if you have successfully reloaded any of the brass in question, only that you have been cleaning/prepping the brass. Are you able to get photos of the base of the case showing the primer pocket with 'insert'? Are you certain that the old primers were not crimped in, which can appear as an insert? See this example photo:
View attachment 102485
Apparently, Winchester (or whomever) has seen fit to sometimes crimp in primers. As you can see, a crimp can sure look like an insert or sleeve. If your 'pick up brass' had crimped in primers, either a pocket swage or reamer operation to remove the crimp is required to complete the 'case prep' before you can 'clean' the primer pocket and seat new primers. I'm just grabbing at straws in an effort to help solve your problem, a photo would sure help us understand, as I think we are nearing the 'thousand word tradeoff'.;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I tried to produce "requested photos", but they are all > 3mB in size. I guess I could try, anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
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Left to right is:
1.) a resized & deprimed case, "reprimed" with a spent primer.
2.) a resized & deprimed case attempting to show the "collar"/"insert" in the primer pocket.
3.) Same as #2, hoping for better results in greater numbers.
4.) Same as #2 & #3, but against an unpolished head, "roughed up" collar/insert for contrast.
5.) A Win. 7.62x39 case made in more civilized times, with a large primer hole, sans insert.

The re-primed case was to assure myself that I had not merely punched out the bottom of the primer cup, leaving the primer's "sides" sticking to the primer pocket. That sometimes occurs with scrounged brass.
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CC,

Sorry I missed the detail in #16. Great minds think alike, it seems.


Kosh75287,

It is difficult to tell from the photo, but it appears to me the shadow on the floor of the primer pockets in the middle three cases is larger than in the last case on the right, plus the edges are ragged, all suggesting this is an extreme crimp rather than an insert, but I can't be 100% sure. Did the primers you knocked out of it look like normal small rifle primers? Is the bottom of the primer pocket as narrow as the opening? If so, it's an insert. One other way to settle it is to take a wood countersink and chuck it in your drill and run it into the pocket about a 1/16" to see if you have then cut out the narrowing and are left with a normal small or a normal large primer pocket. It would be very unusual for them to add a manufacturing step, like adding an insert.

If it turns out to be just a small primer pocket, the countersinking will make it easier to seat the new ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
It is difficult to tell from the photo,
I called it...

Did the primers you knocked out of it look like normal small rifle primers?
Yes, to the extent that I noticed. But remember that I re-seated a spent primer, to be sure that I hadn't just knocked out the bottom of the primer's cup.

Is the bottom of the primer pocket as narrow as the opening? If so, it's an insert.
Yes. It runs ~.175" (slightly less) at both ends. Trust me, it's an insert.

It would be very unusual for them to add a manufacturing step, like adding an insert.
Hence, ONE of my initial queries. It MIGHT make sense if the manufacturer contracted with Winchester for brass with SRP pockets, had an overrun or cancelled contract for brass with LRP pockets, and their engineer/MBAs decided it would be cheaper to "make lemons out of lemonade" and install inserts. <shrug>
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Interesting.... never saw anything like that before. Split one case lengthwise and the pieces of the insert should fall out. That would settle the question for sure. You'd only have to saw from the case head forward, past the depth of the primer pocket.

If the manufacturer went to the trouble, they must have had a LOT of LR primer pocket brass to get rid of, and a huge amount of SR primers to use up. It's hard to imagine it would be worth the trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
No earthly...
I'll reload them & see what transpires. It might be a little while, though. I'm still looking for a pound of 1680 or Reloder 7.
 

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Back when the benchrest crowd was experimenting with small vs. large primers in small cases (i.e. PPC...derived from 220 Russian/7.62 x 39), several small 'entrepreneurs' produced and provided small runs of bushings, sleeves, inserts...take your pick (some steel, some bronze, some brass), to those experimenters. This (Kosh's) example, since it is 'pick up brass' of uncertain origin, may well be nothing more than someone using up (more experimenting?) some old/left over inserts from that era, if they do in fact prove to be inserts/sleeves/bushing. I'm highly skeptical that any [large scale] manufacturer, Winchester or otherwise, would endeavor to produce such an item for the 'open market'....not economically feasible and of no practical commercial value...IMHO!
 

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Sacrifice one to the range gods, you have an audience waiting ;)

A hacksaw and a bench vise will answer the question with certainty, in a couple of minutes.
 

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To get back to the original question…
I like to polish my brass just enuf to remove grit and to remove resizing lube. I tumble in corncob for 45 minutes. That leaves the cases clean, but I don't care whether they're shiny.

The primer pockets will probably still have ash in them. I use a pair of old ammo trays from commercial ammo boxes, usually from .45 ammo. I look for the ones that have open bottoms. I load 50 cases in the tray, and put a duplicate tray over the tops of the cases. I can then turn the whole block over, and access the primer pockets. I swirl a dental pick a couple of times around the pocket, and the ash all crumbles out. turn it over, and the brass is in handy trays ready to be re-primed.
 
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