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Interesting, the only one I ever saw was a front locker. Is yours a rear locker?

Are you meaning stretch from bolt face to end of belt stretch or forward shoulder movement on firing?

If you are talking shoulder movement that can be cured by headspacing barrel with GO Gage, then usings a new unfired case run the reamer in till the bolt will snug closed on the new unfired case and you won't get the rapid forward movement on firing. If you want a min dim 7 Rem Mag reamer I have a drawing made up by Ray Steele for the reamer he used to build the Secret Service 1000 Yard Target Rifles. Send me a PM and I will send you a copy. He also had another one for 300 Win Mag with min dims and I have that drawing as well.
 

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cleaning

interesting you say to clean my rifles when accuacy tails off. i always thought i should clean my rifle after every session at the range no matter if i shot 5 or 50 shots? am i wrong in doing this? does doing that constitute improper cleaning? what exactly is impoper cleaning?
I have a SIG bolt action .270, a REM model 7 in .243 and a Rem 700 in 30-06, all of them shoot better when dirty. I actually have "fouling rounds" loaded up for each rifle to dirty it up if I have cleaned it up before hunting. Don't get me wrong, the rifles get cleaned but before I do some serious shooting or hunting I put one or two fouling rounds through them and they snap right into less than an inch at 100 yards.
 

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One of my shooting buddies uses a M1A1 with at least 10,000+ rounds shot thru it. He still shoots less than 2" groups at 200 yards with open sight free hand. I guess that .30-06 barrel hasn't wore out yet. He does use it 3-4 times a year in competition.

Jerry
 

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28 Nosler, when used as a hunting rifle and not fired in strings lasts 900-1200 rounds, I’ve heard a few guys that got their guns built by piercision rifles (local guy for me) got almost 1400. This surprised me as most people were guessing it would only get 700 rounds. But these guys were doing shot strings no more than 2 shots at a time before cooling the barrel. The guys doing 5+ shot strings at my local comp have been getting 600-700 rounds but the caliber is very overbore for a 284 cal, and their definition of “shot out” is different than mine. When theirs gets to 1/2 moa at 100 they toss the barrel. If you’re looking for 1 moa it’ll maybe last 750 rounds.

I’m looking at having a 28 Nosler built so I’ve been talking to people who have them about barrel life and such, as well as local custom builders of them, I don’t have one myself so take it with a grain of salt, however it’s been pretty unanimous with little to no low shot strings getting 1000-1400. The 1400 ones are throated long (.280 freebore) for 195 grain bergers.
Out of a factory barrel (I’ve been looking at custom) I’d expect 800-1200 if you take care of it.
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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28 Nosler, when used as a hunting rifle and not fired in strings lasts 900-

1200 rounds,and their definition of “shot out” is different than mine.
The 1400 ones are throated long (.280 freebore) for 195 grain bergers.
You hit the nail on the head there, what is the definition, and the shear number of variables.
When the Creedmoor was newer and exciting, everyone was speculating the same 1500-ish barrel life numbers. I'm already past there on one of them, and all but on the other. Neither has any "issues" that concerns me, and you can see in last years Az post, I can still hit T-posts at 750 yards.

I'm not sure I buy the long throated notion, because as you burn away a barrel it naturally becomes a "long throated" rifle. But with the number of variables, it's a crap shoot.
 

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The reason they’re throated long is because the 195 grainers at the factory freebore have to be loaded .2” into the round which sacrifices how much powder you can put into it, Ryan Pierce found that with a .280 freebore and .020 off the lands the base of the ogive is at the bottom of the neck, and it gave him an extra grain and a half of powder, as well as lowering pressures.
 

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One of my shooting buddies uses a M1A1 with at least 10,000+ rounds shot thru it. He still shoots less than 2" groups at 200 yards with open sight free hand. I guess that .30-06 barrel hasn't wore out yet. He does use it 3-4 times a year in competition.

Jerry
Wow...I would like to see an M1A1 in 06.

If he's shooting all Xs from standing, his name is in ALL the record books, thern.....and the M1A is a .308Win.
I won more than a few offhand competitions with an O3-A3 (peep sights) with slightly less than 6" groups at 100 yds. I agree with that assessment
 

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I've cleaned the occasional standing off-hand target in matches (not regularly, as Humpy could do). 6" would do it at 200 yards, for which the SR target has a 7" 10 ring, so a 7.308" diameter C-T-C group, perfectly centered, could theoretically clean it with scratch scores from a .308" diameter bullet. At 100 yards, the SR-1 (100 yards reduced version of the 200 yard SR target) has a 3.35" 10 ring, so a .308" bullet would have to group 3.73", C-T-C to scratch a clean score on it. The size is actually based on bullets being 0.300", or bore diameter, exactly, so 7.3" could make a theoretical clean score at 200, and half that, or 3.65" could do it at 100 yards on the reduced target. In either case, it's about 3.5 MOA.

The practical problem with the Garand-style rear sight (also on the M14) is that even the military version only has 1 moa elevation and windage adjustments and the match version has 1/2 moa, so you probably want to drop half those values off the theoretical group size requirement to allow that closest increment you can get would be off-center by half an increment (after which you would adjust the sight to get closer). So, 3.0 moa or 3.25 moa would need to be your holding ability to clean a target with correct sight settings. The 03-A3 is more complicated as its ramp is calibrated in M2 yardage correction. This table has the MOA for each adjustment, but it is coarser, so you might have to take a full MOA off the group size allowance to clean a target, meaning you'd have to hold 2.5 MOA.

One of the other causes of big overbore rounds eating barrels is that the large powder charges cause muzzle funneling. IIRC, Bruce Baer said he had to knock an inch off the barrels of the .300 Baer Magnum every 300 rounds or so. His guess was hard particles of powder, cooled after blowing out of the barrel, were abrading the bore after being sucked back in by the vacuum left when inertia drove most of the gas out. I suspect, though, that the pressure gradient in the barrel as it exhausts will encourage exiting gas and particles to expand and strike the sides of the muzzle just before exiting. But there are probably other things to be studied about it, like the rate of temperature drop down the tub, that may contribute.
 

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.204 would be on par with the .223 I would say, similar case capacities with lower pressure.

Typically the rifling is gone in the first 3-6". That is called throat erosion. A rifle could still shoot very well but the odds are against it.
I'd wager the 204R would burn out well before a 223R. Reason is more powder and a smaller bore. My 204 has a heavy barrel 1" dia at the muzzle and it heats up considerably faster than my 223 does.
 

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So far my single 204 has shown better accurate life, than several of my 223's.... Variables.
 

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i'm guessing here.....but i think i've shot around 3500-4000 bullets thru my 20 vartarg.
i was fireforming some brass and i got this at 200 yards.(221 rem fireball into 20vt)

20vt
34gr nitemare hp
18.0gr of rel7
this was around 3000-3500 bullets

https://www.shootersforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96755&stc=1&d=1573423112

as far as heating my barrel up, i don't know. i have shot 15 -18 times and the barrel was warm(.850" barrel i believe). i don't clean until the accuracy falls off. its around 250-300 shots.

my load is 18.5gr of rel7 with 34gr hp. i have gone up to 19.0gr but the accuracy fell off.
 

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I haven't read all this but the thing is supposed to be about barrel life? Well that's a suspect thing. Most of us are hunter's. We have a rifle that shoot's 1 1/2" groups we should be good to go. So where does a barrel earn the title shot out? Friend of mine years ago in Montana had a 264 Win Mag he claimed was shot out. Best he could do with it anymore was just under 1" at 100yds. Now if a bench shooter has a rifle that used to shoot .125" at100yds and it goes to .135" is it a shot out barrel? Maybe but I'd think that's still good enough to win with! Big difference in what shot out means between the competitor and the hunter. My 30-06 only does 1 1/4" @ 100yds. Bore scoped by a gun smith and he recommended I put a new barrel on it, full of pit's. Guy I got it from fired a lot of old primer's in it and wasn't good about cleaning it. I haven't hunted with it a lot but carried it for elk last few years. Went one for one with it, one elk in one shot. Range about 150yds. Is the barrel shot out? I've know guy's that only hunt over the years that if they shoot 2" groups are happy as a clam!
 

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i have "shot out" a barrel, only once. it was a savage m340 in 222 rem. i bought it used, so i can't tell you how many rounds did it shoot. i can remember(this was 25+ years ago) 5000-6000 rounds that i loaded and shot. it was a 50gr hornady sp with 22.0gr of h322. the throat of barrel was "burned out" and the rifling was gone about 4" from the muzzle to the muzzle.

back then i used shooters choice to clean my rifle. i should have kept the rifle and put a new barrel on it, but.........i sold it and bought another gun.

i get tired of guys who complain that they "shot out" their rifle. i ask them how do you clean it? and every time, without fail, they use oil. only oil!!! uggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! i tell them to use shooters choice, sweets 7.62, gunslicks foaming bore cleaner, wipe out...... to clean the copper out. i have told this many times, only to find deaf ears. they'll show up with a new gun. only 5 or 6 people have taken my advice and a" thank you for my rifle".

nowadays, in the era of if its broke, then buy another, another, another.......i just keep to myself and buy 1970's and under rifle. i'll even buy a new rifle, IF its wood and blued......cz 527 in 7.62x39, i'm thinkin of you.

my 1944 mauser m98 in 8x57 is one those that are "shot out". the front of barrel, about 6" looked like was "shot out". i used gunslicks and elbow grease to "magically appear" the rifling.


oh well, i'm disabled, so i have to periodically vent my frustration......
 

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I've heard tell of a formula, something to due with powder charge vs diameter, that calculates throat life. But I've gotten so Old I've Plumb forgot what it was..............LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #196
Folks, you must take into account this thread was started almost 10 years ago. Since then, propellants and projectiles (also primer compounds) have changed significantly. New coatings on powders, different bullet configurations and primers have made today's cartridges much more kind to bores. Speaking of bores, the makers are providing better barrels than just a few years ago.


All this means you should expect extended life from firearms today than in the past. That's assuming proper care in cleaning is maintained.
 

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Not sure I understand this

Folks, you must take into account this thread was started almost 10 years ago. Since then, propellants and projectiles (also primer compounds) have changed significantly. New coatings on powders, different bullet configurations and primers have made today's cartridges much more kind to bores. Speaking of bores, the makers are providing better barrels than just a few years ago.

All this means you should expect extended life from firearms today than in the past. That's assuming proper care in cleaning is maintained.
Muzzle velocity equals gas volume-burn temperature-barrel volume. Flame temperature and total energy needs to be the same no matter the design of the propellant. Gas volume, rate of burn, barrel volume and time of flame application determine barrel throat wear. Very old Lee Enfield No1. Mk. III .303 Brit barrels show the funnelling effect that Nick mentions and shortening those by 1" removes the crown issues. I have never seen that in a Musgrave barrel of 50 years in full use on the Bisley range in .308W calibre.

Can someone educate me how modern propellants get around the above thermo-chemistry requirements to achieve the same thermo-dynamics and not cause the same thermo-corrosive effects?

Regarding the metallurgy of barrels: in which way are todays' barrels better than just a few years ago? Quality in the firearms industry is going down almost year on year due to cost savings and it will be hard to convince many owners - me included - of 1894 Swedish Mausers and 1950 - 1998 model Musgraves with 15,000+ bullets through them and still 1/4 MOA shooters that a modern Savage or Marlin or Henry have barrels with better metallurgical processes and better quality control.
 

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If you consistently get the barrel hot enough to fry and egg then it ain't going to last very long.
Had a 17 Rem back in '86 and everyone said it would burn out overnight. I killed a huge amount of foxes and small vermin with that rifle, one shot at a time and gave it a clean every now and then, it started to expand its groups in 1996 to about 1 inch at a 100yrds and I ordered a new 17 rem barrel for my Encore and that is still shooting far better than I am capable.
 

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The dedicated jackal killers here with .22-250 Remingtons and most modern barrels from Europe and dedicated modern propellants install a new barrel every year.
 

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The dedicated jackal killers here with .22-250 Remingtons and most modern barrels from Europe and dedicated modern propellants install a new barrel every year.
On that statement I would hate to be a jackal in SA, if there are any left.Had a 22-250 for many years which killed a load of foxes and roe deer and was still shooting sub moa when a game keeper made me an offer I couldn't refuse and he shot far more so fluufy things than I ever did and probably still is.
 
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