An interesting thing happened today. While cleaning a 7MM Mag I discovered that the brass jag I was using was giving me a false reading on cleaning out the copper fouling in the barrel. It was only noticed when I let Butches Bore shine sit in the barrel for about 2 mins. Then I would run a dry patch and it would show all kinds of copper fouling. Considering I had just run the gun through a long session with the Outers Foulout III system that I have it didn't make sense. Has anyone else had this problem with brass jags? (just FYI I normally use stainless steel jags). Any experience in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Brass or Steel Jags?
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Two thoughts here...
I only use a jag to run dry patches down the bore, cleaning up any solvent that's been used. This would typically be 2-3 patches, with the final one (hopefully) coming out perfectly clean. At no point should the brass jag come into contact with the rifling, nor should it be used to pass a solvent-soaked patch down the bore.
I never run anything down my bore that is just as hard as the barrel, or even close. Honestly, I did not know jags were made in stainless steel and would not even CONSIDER buying one, If I had known of their existence.
I only use a jag to run dry patches down the bore, cleaning up any solvent that's been used. This would typically be 2-3 patches, with the final one (hopefully) coming out perfectly clean. At no point should the brass jag come into contact with the rifling, nor should it be used to pass a solvent-soaked patch down the bore.
I never run anything down my bore that is just as hard as the barrel, or even close. Honestly, I did not know jags were made in stainless steel and would not even CONSIDER buying one, If I had known of their existence.
I have to admit also, I've never seen a steel jag and didn't know they made them. If they do, I would never run one down a barrel.
I do use brass jags and bronze brushes with Butch's bore shine. The bronze brush will usually cause false readings but I've never had a jag do it. I make a few passes with the bronze brush soaked in Butch's, let it sit several minutes and make a few more. I then use a jag and patches soaked in it and run each through only once. When the carbon is out, I use KG-12 with a synthetic brush to get the copper, it works much quicker (and better to my notion) than Butch's. When the copper is gone, I make a few more passes with patches soaked in Butch's, then some dry patches. When clean, I run a patch with Lock-Eze to finish up.
I do use brass jags and bronze brushes with Butch's bore shine. The bronze brush will usually cause false readings but I've never had a jag do it. I make a few passes with the bronze brush soaked in Butch's, let it sit several minutes and make a few more. I then use a jag and patches soaked in it and run each through only once. When the carbon is out, I use KG-12 with a synthetic brush to get the copper, it works much quicker (and better to my notion) than Butch's. When the copper is gone, I make a few more passes with patches soaked in Butch's, then some dry patches. When clean, I run a patch with Lock-Eze to finish up.
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Brass or don't clean IMO. Running a steel jag or brush down the bore is just asking for a scratched bore and a ruined barrel. I will not even use a brush that has a steel core. I guess I have used brass and bronze jags along with copper removers for so long I can tell when it is clean even when I am getting a false + reading on the patch from the jag.
When I think I am done I check by taking the jag and running it through the barrel. With the slotted jag sticking out the muzzle I soak a patch with CR-10 then slowly draw it back through the barrel. When it comes out if the only blue or green is right around the jag and there is not blue "rifling" marks on the patch, then I'm done. Dry and oil.
Do it for a while and you will be able to tell when the copper stain is from the patch getting copper off the barrel or it is getting stained by the jag. But never, ever use a steel jag, brush, or anything else unless you just like ruining barrels.
And that applies to cleaning rods too. I only use coated Dewey rods and when the coating gets worn, I throw them away and get new ones. They are a lot cheaper than a new barrel.
When I think I am done I check by taking the jag and running it through the barrel. With the slotted jag sticking out the muzzle I soak a patch with CR-10 then slowly draw it back through the barrel. When it comes out if the only blue or green is right around the jag and there is not blue "rifling" marks on the patch, then I'm done. Dry and oil.
Do it for a while and you will be able to tell when the copper stain is from the patch getting copper off the barrel or it is getting stained by the jag. But never, ever use a steel jag, brush, or anything else unless you just like ruining barrels.
And that applies to cleaning rods too. I only use coated Dewey rods and when the coating gets worn, I throw them away and get new ones. They are a lot cheaper than a new barrel.
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Judging from the comments made guess I've ruined every barrel on every firearm owned. Funny how they still shoot sub MOA though. Sounds like some are buying into the hype and hysteria of manufacturers bent on selling products using whatever means available.
Are you using steel jags to clean your gun? Where did you get them and who manufactures them? Do you use a bore guide? If steel is safe, why is pretty much every brush out their either brass or synthetic? I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, I'm genuinely interested to learn why we don't have more stainless steel cleaning equipment, if it's harmless to your bore. I mean, a stainless brush would last a lot longer than brass, yet nobody makes one, that I'm aware of.
OK, I understand steel brushes would be bad(I've never even seen any). I would never do that to my barrel. As far as the jag, I use a bore guide whenever I clean a gun and the jag never touches the rifling, only the patch does. Because of this it would make no sense that a stainless steel jag would ever ruin my barrels. The only reason I've been using brass for the 7MM is because I can't find a stainless jag in that caliber. They seem to be harder and harder to find in stainless and that's a shame because they last forever. The question, however, was about false positives with brass jags and how to correct them. Thank you all for the input so far.
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Over the years I've acquired stainless steel bore brushes made by Gunslick, Rig and Hoppe's No. 9. Still have some in there original packaging so that's how I know who made what. Years ago I was cleaning up mil surplus rifles filled with cosmoline, paper and other assorted gunk filling the barrels. It required some drastic measures during the cleaning process. Those brushes helped remove rust from some bores returning them to shooting condition. Never had a bore scope at that time so don't know what if any damage might have been done. However they were returned to shootable condition and most would group fairly well considering there questionable storage, history and military heratige. Most military cleaning rods I've seen and used were of a steel constructed patch holder similar too a needle eye.
Concerning the false positives my usual mode is apply the solution with regular brass jag. Wait period of time and then proceed too clean with fresh patches and brass jag. It will take time for the solution to react with the jag giving the patch what ever color that indicates presence of copper. Some real harsh agressive copper removers will color within minutes. Other milder solutions will take longer times. When I run a clean patch through the bore and it comes out clean then set this aside for some time (hour or longer) and have no color change then I know the bore is copper free. Brass contains copper but in smaller quanities than copper jacketed bullets. Weaker solutions need considerable contact time with brass to render the false positive. KG-12 is the harshes copper remover I've found too date but doesn't change any color. Rather you get a smear similar too brown rust on white patch. From its appearance, action on copper and degree of copper removal I suspect this is the etching solution used in making electronic printed circuit boards.
Concerning the false positives my usual mode is apply the solution with regular brass jag. Wait period of time and then proceed too clean with fresh patches and brass jag. It will take time for the solution to react with the jag giving the patch what ever color that indicates presence of copper. Some real harsh agressive copper removers will color within minutes. Other milder solutions will take longer times. When I run a clean patch through the bore and it comes out clean then set this aside for some time (hour or longer) and have no color change then I know the bore is copper free. Brass contains copper but in smaller quanities than copper jacketed bullets. Weaker solutions need considerable contact time with brass to render the false positive. KG-12 is the harshes copper remover I've found too date but doesn't change any color. Rather you get a smear similar too brown rust on white patch. From its appearance, action on copper and degree of copper removal I suspect this is the etching solution used in making electronic printed circuit boards.
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