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I have a 12 gauge brass round, unfired, marked only "WINCHESTER " No 12. Was this a military round or just a civilian 12 gauge. The pellets have been removed, but the powder and what appears to be a "brillo-pad" type basewad are intact, and the primer is unfired. Got it from my grandfather's small collection, and am just curious where it came from
 

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don't know but to piggyback along with your inquiry i have been told in the past that back during the war, some of those brass rounds where sometimes filled with dimes. was wondering if anyone could add to that on top of your request.
 

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don't know but to piggyback along with your inquiry i have been told in the past that back during the war, some of those brass rounds where sometimes filled with dimes. was wondering if anyone could add to that on top of your request.
I have heard the "dime" load theory before, and am sure some hack ballistician has tried this. However I feel these dime load as being totally useless. I doubt it would penatrate much of anything. Though I very little faith in television research, I did see a bit on the history channel in which these dime loads were used against a manican wearing clothes. At @15 yards the dimes bounced off the manican. The standard 00 buck blew all the way through. During the war in the pacific, wet paper cased shotshells, swelled and either didnt chamber or had great difficultly chambering. The solution was brass cased ammo. I have several sealed boxes of WWII 12 guage in my collection but am unwilling to open and inspect the headstamps.
 

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William Bonney (aka: Billy the Kid) supposedly used the deputy's double barrel 12 gauge loaded with dime charged shells to shoot down the deputy in the street when making his infamous jail break from the Lincoln County jailhouse. Legends are hard to prove.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Perhaps I worded it wrong

I have an all brass 12-gauge shell marked on the base WINCHESTER No 12, with a - underneath the "o" . Whatever shot and wadding has been removed, but there is still some apparent powder in the base, and the primer hasn't been struck (stricken)?. I am wondering if this is a military round (It was with my gramp's stuff, along with some .45 ACP UMC 18 ammo, and some WRAC O .30G 1906 ammo).Just curious if this shotgun round was also military.




















'
 

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William Bonney (aka: Billy the Kid) supposedly used the deputy's double barrel 12 gauge loaded with dime charged shells to shoot down the deputy in the street when making his infamous jail break from the Lincoln County jailhouse. Legends are hard to prove.
This "legend" about the dime load and Billy the kid shooting a deputy with it, is the reason the history channel did the test. From what they were able to assertain, the dimes didnt even penatrate the vest. If this is actual results then the deputy shot with dimes would still be alive after the shot.
 

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If I'm not mistaken all shotgun shells were brass. I believe they switched to paper for the cost of such. There are now some folks providing reloadable brass shells now for the cowboy shooters. Fact is I've kinda' wondered about getting them to reload as well. They are supposed to have some advantages over the plastic ones we use now.
 

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Brass shot shells are still available from a few sources in most gauges and some odd gauges as well. They require different loading and crimping or sealing applications. Some cases like the Kynoch and Eley cases here are lined with a card board tube to allow the use of wads for paper shells as opposed to the larger wads required for the Parker and winchester type shells pictured. The Parker shell would not have been roll crimped but an over shot wad placed and sealed. Your win shell is likely a sporting load. I think I figured out how to put pics in the post. we'll see. Note the heavy paper/card lining in the Purdy case. The Win case is a loaded OO buck.
 

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Here are a couple other brass shells. One by Kynoch a 2 piece lined and loaded with a roll crimp Made for Henry Squires of NY a sporting goods retailer. The Purdy case in previous post was made by Eley for Purdy. Most of these cases are from the turn of the last century. The British are the newest ones. I believe Win stopped making brass shells by the 20's.
from r-l in the pic with multiple cases, Purdy by Eley, Kynoch for Squires-NY, Winchester, Parker.
 

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Brass and paper shotgun shells evolved more or less parallel to one another but paper dominated eventually. While brass had its following, they did not function well in repeaters, were more expensive to make and not as easy to mass produce as paper.

While brass shells were used in both World Wars, paper shells were the norm in combat. Shell makers produced the same shells they had been making before the war for the Government contracts in and just prior to WWII. Boxes seldom changed either.

Here is a box, date of manufacture unknown, which was most likely made for war. The inner wrapper is foil and the outer paper. This is a full, sealed box and sold for about $250 recently.
 

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A WWII veteran told me that there was nothing better than these 00 Buck loads in a M97 Winchester short barrel riot gun for 'clearing out' a squad of enemy soldiers walking behind a tank!
Dick C. :D
 
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