Chambering may be difficult if you are compressing without a compression die because when you are compressing the powder without a compression die you are compressing the powder with the bullet & deforming the bullet

I think you mean that you are engraving .008 not .8 or 8/10
I would try .002-.004 for the engraving but each gun has it's own mind.
My 45-70 shoots great seated .005 off of the lands & chambers like a charm.
Starting loads & load development, see below.



http://www.shootersforum.com/blackp....com/blackpowder-cartridge-shooting-loading/56122-45-70-black-powder-loads.html

http://www.shootersforum.com/blackp...um.com/blackpowder-cartridge-shooting-loading/45174-how-much-black-45-70-a.html

Your overall length should be the same, at least for all rounds in the same test.
When you increase or decrease your OAL you also need to reset your compression die.
Accuracy requires consistancy .

It would help if you fireformed all your brass with smokeless such as Accurate 5744 then necksizing only before working up a BP load,
This would give you the same case volume as brass neck sized after fireing & also get you some trigger time with your new rifle.
Shoot some groups & let the barrel cool between groups. If you shoot too much too fast you will get a lead wash in your barrel that is a PITA to clean.
If you have or can get some Lyman 457193 27 grains of accurate 5744 shoots great.
For the heavier bullet that you have play around with 23-28 gr of 5744
These are Springfield Trapdoor level loads & are lighter than 45-90 loads

 

Bullet depth for Shiloh 45-90

I handload for the 45-90 Sharps.
I need more information,
What brass did you buy from Buffalo Arms? How did you load your cases with Black Powder and , by weight or volume? You should not be jamming your cartridges into the lands of your barrel. What powder are you using? Some powders require no, or little compression",Swiss", and some require a lot of compression." Goex" these are the powders that I have used.
To start out you find your rifle's OAL then load your powder with no compression ,.then compress and increase the powder charge to see what your rifle likes. After you find out the right compression that your rifle likes then you try different components. If you find a good combination then buy a different lot of powder you may have to start all over again( powders do change by lots).

 

I'm using the b/a .45-70 brass re-sized to 2.4. Also got their case expander, running that down approx 1" into the case. Loading the cases by the lyman 55 powder measure, have that dialed in to 80 grains ( Swiss 1.5 I've weighed these first 5 loads to verify I've got the powder measure set correctly), from there I use a drop tube to charge the case. That leaves me with .4" 'free' space at the top of the case, I place a .030 vegtable wad on top of that. From there I use the Vickerman micrometer seating die to seat a b/a 545gr creedmoor bullet. I'm seating the bullet to the top of the last gas check- where it starts to cone, I've got approx .7" from the base of the bullet to the last gas check step on the bullet.
I tested the first loaded shell for fit, had to nudge it the last fingernail distance into the chamber. All 5 I've loaded so far are imprinted the rifling by .11" Am I just not seating my bullet far enough?
Since this is my first attempt at reloading, (other than the old 155mm howitzers in another life), I'm definetly feeling a little behind the curve here.
I appreciate the assistance you folks are offering me. Once I get this dialed in I'll feel more comfortable.

 

I would seat the bullet a little deeper to start with, so it is just past only just touchinf the lands & lightll engraving only .002-.003
Get a compression die .
Get Venturino's book Shooting Buffalo Rifles Of The Old West
For primers either Federal Large Rifle Match or CCI BR2
for your test loads I would weigh each charge & trickle to weight to avoid any variance, in your test . Swiss 1 1/2 is a coarse powder & weights by volume will swing.
Remember consistancy .
With very light compression you will not need a compression die But as compression continues you will deform your bullet & chambering will become difficult.
You will avoid a lot of frustration ,headaches ,wasted time & material if you start out with one.
Also rember with a compression die you can actualy budge your brass out to where it will be difficult or impossiable to chamber. After each powder increase check the new load to see that it chambers.
Fouling controll. you will have to either wipe your bore between shots or use a blow tube,

 

Bullet Depth for Shiloh 45-90

I also use the B.A." stretched brass", it has the most case capacity for powder compared to Bell and Starline brass.
My hunting load is 80 grains of Goex 2F and the bullet is B.A. 545 grain Creedmore .459dia.
I use a orange juice carton to make my over powder wad ( .026") with a paper wad ( .004") between it and the bullet base.

My cartridge overall length is 3.120 so you are in the ball park.

 

Okay, so I'll get a compression die and go from there. What is the advantage of using 2 wads over the powder? How deep do I want to expand my case? And, with the Vickerman micrometer, that doesn't crimp. Is that important?
Have to admit, this first go at loading my own has proven to be frustrating. I realize that once I get it dialed in all this will seem old hat but it's getting there that tries my patience.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Chris

 

The expanding die also puts a flare or bell on the case mouth. you want to set this so that your only flaring the case mouth a small amount so that when you set your bullet in the brass it will just set right in around 1/16- 3/32 ,when you go to seat your bullet
you will be able to do so without shaving any lead off of the bullet.
It also reexpands the casemouth on your resized brass to a few thousandths under your bullet diameter. ( if your expander was .356 & your bullet was sized .359 you would have .003 neck tension)
After setting your expander die take the brass that you just expanded & make sure
it chambers easily in your rifle.
If you were loading for a lever action rifle with a tube magazine you would need a crimp. For a single shot rifle no crimp is needed, the single shot rifles usualy shoot better with no crimp & little to no neck tension.
Some use a thin paper between the bullet & the wad so that if anything sticks then
seperates in flight it will just be a very thin paper not a .030-.060 wad.

 

Bullet depth for the Shiloh 45-90

Chris
The reason I use two wads is because I didn't have fiber material (.030) to make them. I make my own wads from orange juice cartons, the wax on the carton wad will cause the wad to stick to the base of the bullet, so I use the paper wad to stop this from happening. If you have the material (.030) then it comes out to the same thickness.
Expand the case mouth just enough to seat your bullet, you want it to start but not shave off any lead when seating the bullet.
No, you do not need to crimp the bullet.

 

I've seen some home made compression dies on youtube that are just pieces of dowell rod and can't find any specifically called that on ebay. Does it go by another name?
Also going to get another reloading press. Swapping everything over is a real pain and my home-made bench (first time I've ever made anything from wood) is large enough that it won't be crowded. Be comfortable to sleep on too for when the wife finds out how much I've spent on all this stuff...

 

Bullet depth for Shiloh 45-90

I bought my "Powder Compression Plug" from Buffalo Arms, you need a Expander Die for it to work. If you google: Buffalo Arms, Powder Compression Die it will show you pictures of them. There are other companies that sell them but when I started out they were the only source that carried them, that I could find. I have one for the Sharps 50-90 also.

 

The compression plug is below, you will also need a expander die body
If you call Buffalo Arms They will take care of you. 208-263-6953
The # for a Lyman Expander Die Body is # Lym 7113000A in their catalog, it
would not come up on their web sight when I tried.


http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=164562&TERM=compression plug
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Search.aspx?TERM=Lym7113000A

It came up this time , I guess their web sight nad the hicups or something

 

Got the compression plug and die ordered today, should be here by friday. Wanted to order another lyman press but they are on back-order. Ordered it anyhow, they'll ship it when it comes in. Hope to have a few rounds done up so I can sight the scope in this weekend. One of the items I got and found out I probably won't need is a gas check seater. Should I hang on to it for whatever reason or send it back? It was only 20 bucks. Thoughts on this...
Also found all my old .45-70 brass, got a boat load of it. Looks like I'll be getting some more dies here pretty soon.
C

 

If you think you may in the future load cast for a smaller cal rifle such as .308
or hot handgun loads keep it.
You didn't mention if you are casting or buying precast.
You did say what bullet you are using but you did not mention if you bought the bullets or the mold. If you are not casting that will probably be next.
We are here to help you spend your $$$$$$.

 

I bought the bullets from Buffalo Arms, more convinient this first go-around. I imagine that, at some point in the near future, I'll be boilin up a pot-o-lead and casting my own. Gotta let the war dept get over this first expenditure before I go buying more stuff, otherwise she'll make me sell off some of my other treasures- like my 'new' 54 mini dozer...Can't have that!

 

Think I just started climbing the curve. Finally figured out what I was doing wrong, thanks to you folks advice. The compression die was the hot set up, prevented me from malforming the bullet tip because I was using the bullet to compress the powder. I realized I was mushrooming the bullet tip when I ran it down- that's why I was cutting rifling so far onto the bullet.
My friend and I loaded 4 different recipes tonight of varrious charges and bullet weights, ranging from 75 grns 1.5 Swiss topped with a Montana prec. swagging 500gn, oal 3.112-3.116 and cuts a tooth to where you can just see it's doing it.
To an 85gn/545ba, oal 3.184.
We'll be heading to the range on the morrow, be happy to just hit paper with these 1st 20.
Agian folks, thank you for your patience and spot on advice.
C

 

How did it go ?

 

Not only did we manage to hit the paper, we got some pretty decent accuracy out of all loads- except the 75gn/500. The 80gn/545 seemed to perform the best, all things considered. One thing I did notice was a dark ring about 4-6" forward of the breech after 6-10 rounds. Didn't seem to affect accuracy at all but didn't come out when a dry patch was run down the pipe.
Anyhow, I'm all tuned up now to start loading more. All shells fired, rifle didn't blow up and the wife is cooling down about the cost of the equipment!
Thanks again guys!

 

One more question. Just finished decapping all the spent casings from yesterday. How does one go about cleaning the cases? Have heard you're s'posed to let them soak in a soapy water solution for awhile prior to using a toothbrush or other such like brush before tumbling them.
Any thoughts on this guys?
I stated 'all things considered' about the 80 grn swiss 1.5 topped with a b/a 545 being the most accurate; the all things considered was the recoil difference between that load and the 85gn load. Never in a million years would have figured I'd be able to tell the difference but I could. Of course by then we'd put alot of rounds down range and I was a little sore.
An observation I have made on many occasions at the range and was wondering if you guys have experienced it; someone will watch you load a shell into the breech then ask you what kind of muzzle loader you have...gotten to the point now where I just ignore them.

 

I bring a jug of 2/3 water, 1/3 vinegar and some Dawn liquid soap to the range and throw the cases in it, this starts the cleaning and stops the rotten egg smell that your wife will not like, I also clean the rilfe there too. When I get home I rinse them in clean water, dry them, remove the primers, then throw them in the thumbler.
If you let them set in Vinegar too long the cases will turn black.

 

HVY, wait til you get your rifle and loads dialed in and start outshooting the smokeless/scoped crowd. The comments you receive then will bring a smile to your face and sometimes even a big ol' belly laugh!! Sounds as if you're getting there. Good luck and keep after it....and enjoy!!!

 

I don't know if you used a blow tube or not.
You need to either use a blow tube between shots or wipe between shots with a damp patch were most of your solution is squeezed out.
For your wiping solution you can use water soluable oil from NAPA or Balistol around 5 to 1 or some use 50/50 antifreeze & water.
I saw you mention fouling around 6" from the chamber & a dry patch leaving it
If you were wiping between shots that would take care of most of it , with a blowtube the moisture from your breath would keep it soft.
I tumble with ceramic media in a thumblers tumbler . before I got that tumbler I used a 45 cal brush in a cordless drill after soaking & before rinsing
I have a cordless drill that I set up so thast I can hookit up to the car battery if I am going to be away from home for a while.

Are You Having Fun Yet ?

I can't recall anyone calling it a muzzle loader , have some ask questions a few complain about the smoke & a few say that smells good.
I have also had some shooters realy intrigued when I have a flint lock at the range.

 

Next step will be to chronograph the 80grn and 85grn loads. Ideally we're wanting between 1350/1450 fps, right?
I will say that it was very satisfying to shoot cartridges that we loaded ourselves, verses 'store bought' shells. When we first started shooting, we held between 1 to 1.5 moa (mind you, that's with the MVA scope- I'm not Mr. Magoo but just can't see the front sight post all that well anymore). As the string went on and shoulders became sore the groups got larger. Reminded me that I ain't no spring chicken anymore!
Why didn't I do this black powder reloading years ago?!

 

Okay, next question for you guys: Using Swiss 1.5fg powder, how much powder compression is too much? Found that with an 83 gn load of this powder we're compressing about .32 to get our bullets to seat where we want them to seat.
Any thoughts on this?

 

The bullet that I'm using is a little longer than yours. I am using a 550gr bullet. In my 45-70 I am seating .005 short of touching the lands & I am 2-3 grains more powder than level to the bottom of the bullet after dropping the powder through a droptube +.030 wad. That is 62 gr of swiss 1 1/2f.
In my 45-90, same bullet I am seating to engrave .002-.003 using a .060 wad I am also 2-3grains more than what would be level to the bottom of the bullet after droptubing.76 gr Swiss 1 1/2f.
The 45-90 load is enough to meet the weight & velocity requirements
required for pit safety at some matches. (1,000 yds )
I dont know exactly how much that compression actualy is but it is not a whole lot of compression.

Are you planning on shooting Creedmore or Silhouette with tht Rifle?


The 45-70 load out of a C. Sharps is FANTISTIC
my spotter could not see where I was hitting one day , When I went to reset the targets found one had hit under the cutout for the rams horn at the front edge& 2 at the rear edge, the next shot most likely went through the cutout,I then changed my sight setting & missed.
That is 3-4 shots in under 6" at 500M , I was thrilled !

Actualy the 45-70 load started with .002-.003 engraving & someone suggested trying it seated off of the lands to see what happened,that added about .008 to the compression.

 

Bullet depth for the Shiloh .45-90

HVY BRL wote:

"Okay, next question for you guys: Using Swiss 1.5fg powder, how much powder compression is too much? Found that with an 83 gn load of this powder we're compressing about .32 to get our bullets to seat where we want them to seat.
Any thoughts on this? "

You can add 2 grains at a time to see if the loads get better or worse on paper, If you put too much powder in, the case will get a bulge in it.
I have heard someone has compressed the Swiss 1.5 up to .400
As a rule most people compress the Swiss from 0 to .100 and get best results, but not all rifles are the same.
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