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Cost of gun registration

By Special Correspondent - The Chronicle-Journal

August 31, 2002

With summer waning, Northwestern Ontario hunters are starting to think about unlocking the gun cabinet and oiling up the long arms.

But this fall will mark the last season that Canadians can legally hunt with unregistered firearms. Under Bill C-68 — the controversial Firearms Act — the Canadian government will consider all gun owners who do not register their firearms by the end of this year to be criminals.

With that in mind, I expect the feds will be receiving a mountain of gun registration applications some time about Dec. 31. The tidal wave of paperwork will certainly create more chaos at the already overwhelmed Canadian Firearms Centre.

What’s going to be really interesting, however, is how the government will handle what looks like an epidemic of non-compliance. There has been very little in the news this year about gun owners who failed to license themselves last year being thrown into jail.

You have to wonder what will happen if those same people decide not to register their guns.

Recently, Garry Breitkreuz, the rabidly anti-Bill C -68 Member of Parliament for Yorkton-Melville, supplied the media with clippings gleaned from several Canadian newspapers. Breitkreuz sees Bill C-68 as a fatally flawed legislation and has spent the last couple of years documenting the sins of a bill he calls a “fiasco.”

What the articles in the media package indicate is that C-68 is creating a defiance of law that’s rarely seen in Canada.

An article from the Prince George Free Press, dated Jan. 7, 2001, quotes a man who is openly defying the government over bill C-68. “Come and get me,” says Phil Hewkins. “I’m not going to hide. I’m not going to bury my guns.”

Breitkreuz says he checked with Mr. Hewkins this summer and found that the RCMP had yet to pay him a call. Yet Mr. Hewkin is knowingly in possession of firearms contrary to Section 91 of the Criminal Code and could face 10 years in jail if the RCMP ever does follow through.

In a more recent article from the Edmonton Sun (March 20, 2002), the non-compliance of a First Nations group to Bill C-68 is the focus. “We’re talking about a law that violates our fundamental treaty rights to hunt or bear arms,” says Greg Ahenakew, Vice Chief of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. “Treaty law is basic law and it comes before the Firearms Act. This is an unjust law passed without our consent.”

In hopes of having Bill C-68 repealed, Breitkreuz has made 267 requests under the Access to Information Act. Here are just a few of the things he’s found out about the ongoing gun registration:

• As of March 23, 2002, the Justice Department has registered 3,308,514 firearms. Every one without the owner’s name on them.

• The RCMP report a 132 per cent error rate in gun registry as of July 2001. Most of the errors are in the description of the firearms.

• The Department of Justice reports there are 222,911 guns in the registry with the same make and serial number. They have also lost track of 38,629 firearm licence holders.

• Last year, the department lost track of 89,820 firearms declared at the border by foreign visitors.

• The RCMP reports 156 known breaches of their computer system known as CPIC since 1995.

And what’s been the cost of gun registration so far?

As of April 24, 2002, registering just over four million firearms will have cost $978,260,000.

Thunder Bay freelance writer Gord

Ellis’s column appears Saturdays on this page.
 

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I've seen a bit about this before, very interesting. As to the staggering cost, zero effectiveness, and total inneficiency of the system: The Canadians must be taking cue from the good old federal government of their neighbors to the South.
 

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Contender,

I can relate to the acts of sheer foolishness that pollies are want to bestow upon us and to **** with the cost.

Recently an Australian professor who works in the USA stated what a success the great "Buyback" was, as it had reduced gun related crime. Doesn't matter to him that the overall crime rates for armed robbery 4.2% and murder 0.8% have risen since 1996.

Our own prime minister stated "I won't pretend that this action will prevent another massacre" but went ahead and spent half a billion of our dollars anyway.

Move to the official import figures for firearms from our own gov. departments that show 272,000 SKS assault rifles were imported but only 83,000 were recovered. Ruger mini-14's 83,000 only 13,400 recovered. So only about 25% of these 2 types were revovered.

Were are they now? Shooters who handed them in and obtained registration and licences, dont have them because they are now subject to random security checks on their storage facilities.

So now we have about 1.5 million guns (75%) and don't know who has them, where they are stored or when they might be used in crime. They must be out there somewhere because at each gunshow we sell every 7.62x39 and 30M1 carbine round within the first 2 hours of a 2 day show.

England now has a much higher crime rate than before their bans on both rifles and handguns.

For the majority of people all over the world, to win favour and votes the pollies must be seen to be doing something even if it is ineffective and it wastes a billion dollars.
 

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I really feel for you guys in Oz. I was there for six months, about 5 years ago. It was a working holiday. It was the only six months in my entire life since the age of seven where I didn't use a firearm for such a long period of time. What exactly can and can't you have there? I know some relatives of the girl I was there with had a ranch, or whatever you call it there, and where allowed to have one gun I think. I loved it there, but I could never live there. I loved the people and the beer :), but not the politics or the slightly worse than US taxes.
 

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There is no problem owning a firearm. I am city based and have 128 rifles, 17 handguns and 6 shotguns but NO semi-automatics or pump shotguns. When you aquire over 29 firearms then you must have a vault for storage. I have a vault that is 12feet long 7 feet high and 3feet thick comprising a steel inner, 150mm corefilled concrete block and an outer skin of 4mm plate. This is housed inside a room that has 20mm thick plywood walls with sheet steel external walls and a 6mm solid steel door, 20mm bars over the windows and 10mm 200x200 steel mesh in the ceiling. Then we have 2 guard dogs and 2500w of floodlighting with infrared heat sensors.I asked the inspecting officer on his last visit if these bloody burgulars wear capes!!!

Each time you wish to buy another centerfire rifle you have to give a genuine reason and demonstrate a genuine need. There is a $18.75 application fee, a $10.00 transfer fee and a licence is $60.00 for 5 years. Satisfy all the above and you can own anything you like so long as it is not more than 2 of the same calibre.

For example my 4 - 30.06's are registered as 2x30.06 and 2x7.62x63mm. I have a 223 and 2 - 5.56x45mm , 2 - 308 Winchesters and a 7.62x51 not to be confused with a 7.62x39 or a 7.62x54R. I have 5 - 17cal centrefires but that is ok cos the nice officer said that they were registered as air rifles. "You don't know what you are talking about son, all 17's are air rifles!!!!"

Nothing changes around the world because despite our knowledge of guns the authorities tell us what sort of guns we have, and then spend millions of dollars on a data base that will never solve one single crime.

I am impressed with the speed of data that can be sourced. As a firearm owner I am now on the national "Crimtrak" system where they store the records DNA and finger prints of convicted felons. Last year my daughter was late getting home and I went looking for her in my car. At 20mins past midnight I hailed down a patrol car to inquire if there was any vehicle accidents reported. They punched in my car registration that gave them a owners detail which alerted them that I also owned firearms.Within 3-4mins I was being questioned as to my name and if I was carrying any firearms.

I replied "Officer it is almost half midnight, I am in my pyjamas looking for my daughter, do I really look like I am on my way to/from a rifle range??
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Mr. Gibson,

Very interesting information. Couple questions:
1. Can you give us some examples of "genuine reason/need" that satisfy the government. I'm surprised that you have been able to collect that level of gun ownership.

2. What are the restrictions for where you can fire the firearms? I note that you reference "ranges" and wondered if you are restricted to "qualified" ranges.

Again, enjoy and appreciate the insights.

Dan
 

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Genuine need criteria - target shooting at an approved shooting range in organised events for the type of firearm you wish to purchase; or hunting if you have a letter from 2 landholders stating that you have permission to shoot there. I have an instructors certificate and I require this firearm for demonstrations and safety training

Genuine reason - "Sir there are sabre toothed field mice attacking my friends chooks." "I wish to compete in historical shoots for Sharps buffalo rifles and I don't have one." Ditto for Service rifle, Field rifle, Benchreast, Silhouetes etc .

You are allow 2 of the same type and calibre so that you can continue to shoot in the event of a break and cease to function.

Shooting is allowed at any police approved rifle range or on private land with the 2 letters of permission. I frequently travel up to 1000km intrastate for work and carry guns in my car. To cover my butt, I call in to the nearest range to my destination and sign the attendance book. Then I am covered if stopped and searched on the highway. "But I have been competing in organised competition and am on my way home Sir!"

As I have previously stated , I don't like this jackboot gerrymander which will solve very little crime, but feed the authorities what they want to hear and life is still very enjoyable
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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Eric,

Sincerely appreciate the information, very interesting. I belong to both NCOWS and SASS and noticed in their publications (SASS) that our down under friends have established posses for cowboy shooting.

Dan
 

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It just gets worse!!! Two tree huggin hippee protesters were charged yesterday with firearm offences for "going armed in public so as to cause fear".

One was caught with a slingshot, the other with little balloons filled with paint.

What next? An enviornmental impact study from a recognised institute before you are able to pass wind!!!!
 

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God help me!!!!

In Australia we have certain proceedures to be followed before taking possession of any firearm. First you go to any police station where upon paying $18.75 you are issued with a form to fill out which is ONLY an application for a permit. Second take the form home and fill the form out and post to the central registry where they do a crim check and then issue with a "Permit to Acquire"

This week I went to a non-local station and I applied for an "Application for a Permit to Acquire a Firearm".

The conversation went something like this:
Yes sir that will be $18.75. Fill out the form and hand it back to me.
Sergeant, there is no requirement for me to fill out the form in your presence.
Sir I have been to training on the prodeedures and you will fill them out
No, I need to add some supporting information therefore I require the forms to take away
Sir, here is you receipt go away and get your info and come back. It is now 4.40pm and I wish to close.

Next day I rang Central,who rang the sergeant, who then gave me the @#$% forms after I drove back there, to take away, fill out and post to Central Registry.

It only took 2x66km round trips to get an application form. "Just keep smiling at the nice Sergeant he knows not what he has to do."
 
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