[Sky C.]

Howdy All-

Can anyone recommend a correct Cast Bullet design for use in a Model 92 Winchester - 44 mag? Seems that most all the bullets are meant to be loaded at an OAL quite a bit longer than the M-92 action will handle (1.610").

Since these are for use in a Lever gun - I'd like to find something with the crimp groove located correctly - and I'd like something with a big fat meplat too if I can get it all in the same package!

I cast my own so am looking specifically for recommendation on moulds - not for suppliers.

Thanks-

Sky C.
Longmont, CO

 

[Alk8944]

Any of the "Cowboy" moulds from Lyman, RCBS, etc.

The old standby, 429421 should work too.

 

[Sky C.]

CB Hunter-

Thanks for the suggestions. However, the old standby, Lyman 429421 is actually one of the worst offenders. That Keith style bullet hangs a lot of "nose" outside the case making the OAL too long to cycle thru the short action of the M-92.

Looking at the other Lyman offerings for "cowboy" - all appear to suffer the same problem. The RCBS 200gr. cowboy bullet may work but given they are recommending it for use with a .428 sizer die - I'm skeptical that it will work well in my gun. I haven't slugged the bore on this one yet but so far - all my revolvers slug at .4310 and up. I have a Saeco 265 RNFP bullet that I size at .431" and it shoots up a storm in this little M-92 but unfortunately I can only shoot those single loaded for the same reason - OAL at the crimp groove is too long.

The surprising thing is - it appears that almost all the CB designs are "too long" to meet the OAL criteria. Guess most all bullet designers figured out that the cylinders on most all revolvers will handle the longer OAL. Unfortunately - the M-92 action doesn't.

Oh Well...

Sky C.

 

[Alk8944]

Sky,

Sorry about that, the 429421 worked fine in my '94 Marlin without modifying the carrier. In the '92 Winchester you can cut the cartridge stop on the carrier back a little bit without any harm. Another option is shortening the brass 1/16" or less, just until the loaded rounds are short enough. In guns like the '73 or '76 Winchester adjusting brass length is sometimes the only option.

Is your gun an original Winchester, a Browning B-92 or a Rossi Puma? Looking at my notes the 429421 gives an LOA of 1.700" which is .108" over SAAMI. Most lever guns I have seen, except the '73/'76 type, have been tolerant of this length.

Is the problem length, where the cartridge won't allow the carrier to rise, or is it having problems getting into the chamber? Original '92 Winchesters converted from .38-40 or .44-40 sometimes were a real problem to get to feed with the .44 Mag. I have found with them that using brass cut to .44 Spl. length the feeding problems all go away.

It seems to me that most of the cowboy bullets are really stumpy. Lee has a RNFP mould which has a really short nose if length is really your problem.

Let me know how this turns out.

 

[Sky C.]

Hello CB Hunter-

Yeah- the problem really is the length. The gun is one of the new USRAC made by Miroku. I discovered the problem when I went to shoot some loads I'd already assembled for my revolvers. That was with the Saeco 265 RNFP. I loaded them into the mag tube, they'd come back into the cartridge carrier but the noses on the bullets would hang up and not lift into position.

Shortening the brass is certainly one way to go and may be where I end up. I'll have to study the cartridge lifter and see what you're referring to. Thanks for the suggestion.

Best regards-

Sky C.

 

[humpty]

429421

The 429421 casts too small in diameter, even if the OAL was not a problem. I get slightly bigger than 429 with wheel weights. They feed fine in my Marlin, lead like crazy from being undersized.

Ahhh, I have it, load up the bullets you like that size .431 in 44 special cases. Then they should meet the OAL just fine.
Humpty

 

[humpty]

OAL

In magnum cases, my Lasercast 200 RNFP bullets load up to 1.555,
It looks like the difference to 240 gr is on the back end of the bullet, not the nose. My 429421 load up to 1.646 OAL in magnum cases.
Humpty

 

[Rrusse11]

Sky,
Don't forget the Lee Factory Crimp die. They work brilliantly IMO. I shoot 357Mag, but same kinda' restrictions on COL in my Marlin 94, haven't done Marshall's tweak on the cartridge lifter yet, have a look at it, in tech notes I think it is. Don't know how it applies to a Win, but a little here, touch more case trimming , all adds up.
Cheers,
R2

 

[Charlie Z]

Sky,

I have one of those Win '92s. 'Real' Keiths do hang up, so I use them in Spl cases. Beartooth's 265s, 280s and 300s work wonderfully. After shooting a bunch of those three, I don't need the 280s or 300s -- the 265s are great and will thru-and-thru anything I'm likely to aim at. It's not worth the fussing to use anything else. No leading and veeery accurate.

All 3 seem to be the same shape nose, except the larger are longer based for the weight. The 265's crimp is longest of the 3 and cases can't be longer than spec.

BTW- I've given up on the given sights and am putting on an AO peep and front blade.

-Charlie

 

[georgewxxx]

Sky,
There's another way to skin a cat. Seat that Saeco bullet deeper than you do for your revolter. My mould should be the some as your only in the GC version(Saeco 462). I do it with my 44-40 tigre, and it sucks it up like you wouldn't believe. 44-40 cases are a bit longer than your 44 mags too. I've not had any problem with bullet pulling forward. That 92 action was ment for 44-40 boolits anyway so you might want look for a mould that 200 to 250gr. I don't know if you can find one, but Lymans 429434GC is the best boolit for a 92 type action...Geo

 

[kciH]

There is a new custom mould manufacturer in the Bullet Casting forum that will make mould with any length nose and meplat configuration that you want. It may be worth your while to check out his website or give him a call. It looks to me like you can get a mould that will suit anything you would want to do. Before I spent a bunch of time trimming brass, which sucks even with a power trimmer, I'd get some 44 Special brass and be done with it if you don't want a bullet specifically for that firearm.

 

[Rrusse11]

And now who would that be?
Cheers,
R2

PM comin atcha', thought I'd give it a go.
)

 

[kciH]

http://www.mountainmolds.com/ That's the website so you can check out what he has to offer. There are a few forum members who have recieved moulds from him and are posting on them in the bullet casting forum. It looks like he'll make you about anything you want withing the calibers that he is now making, which is set to expand with his business. If you go to the "design it yourself" area you can see that he will make a mould of whatever weight you want with whatever nose length you want within reason. You'll likely want to slug your barrel before you order a mould as he will make it whatever diameter you want also. The options are extensive.

 

[Rrusse11]

Thought so, {)
And from user feedback over on the CB board, Dan does a fine job too!
Cheers,
R2

Hope ya didn't mind the nudge on posting the site. I believe that our small fraternity should do what they can to support fellow shooters in the difficult world of small business, particularly at start up.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, Rrusse11:
I don't think there's any problem. Marshall has a 6 month backlog and since the death of Walt Melander of NEI moulds there's a big hole in the custom mould market. We can always use another mould maker. Just think about what it will be like if one of the big 4 (Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding-Saeco) drops out.

Bye
Jack

 

[kciH]

Jack,
I thought someone bought NEI after Walt passed away. Do you know what the name of the business is? Or when it will start up?

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, kciH:
The last word from the Cast Bullet List is that Walt's daughter Patty couldn't find a buyer so she's moving the equipment back to El Paso and will run the business herself. Apparently the first potential buyer was a friend of Walt's, but couldn't sell his own business to raise the cash. I'll keep you all posted.

Bye
Jack