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Discussion Starter #1
Very soon we will be posting a new .416 Wildcat, built arond Marshall's .416 hard cast bullets, that is designed for the Marlin. At the present time finishing touchs are being done, like chamber throat and leade. As soon as everything is ready, YOU will be the first to know!
Best Regards from The Hammock.....James
 

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James,

Now what am I going to do with a third 416 cartridge? You know I'll have to have one. This just isn't fair. I'd say I'd tell Marshall on you, but I'm sure he's just smiling. (wink)

Great work James, I can't wait to see this. Will you be recommending any gunsmiths to handle the conversion? How about a T/C Encore version?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
MT...I talked to Marshall today and we discussed this cartridge in depth...It's time we, the forum, had our own .416 built around Marshalls bullets. That's what this is all
about. It's designed @ 2.465" OAL...That's just under what is the limit on the Marlin. It has a 50/52 gr powder capacity with an Expansion Ratio in a 20/22" barrel of 12...and that's extra good. Planned velocity with 335 gr BT @ 2050'/". Working pressure is within the Marlin's limits. It will not be on the.450 Marlin case!!!!
The neck is designed so that the 375 gr bullet's base is at the bottom of the neck. Of course, it will also br good with jacketed bullets. There is only two toolpost grinder setups to convert the reamers for the new cartridge from the .457 x 2" American.
You know, MT...There's a lot of difference in building wildcat rifles and designing a resonable wildcat. I did this one for all my friends on the forum that likes .416's. Marshall is setting the chamber throats and leades for his bullets. He is setting the twist @ 1 turn in 18 inches, I think. It will work in lever guns, bolt guns ( medium and long actions), single shots, and even be good down to about 16" with ER of 10 for [email protected] close to 2000 fps with the 335 gr....that's heavy duty!
I think I might put one on a Ruger No 3 with a rather heavy 22" barrel. It would still be light and short.
Well...I've worked on this thing for three days and nights...checking and rechecking all calculations and spec drawings. We are down to the home stretch and want to go public before someone gets ahead of us!
Best Regards from The Hammock.....James  
 

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This one is for real!  It has all the power you could want, and a trajectory that will be enviable with a levergun with this much potential.

It should be a fun and imminently useful round for all North American use imaginable.   The portability, stregth and simplicity of the Marlin, with the performance of a truly modern cartridge of a diameter and bullet weight to penetrate moose and elk from any angle.  Should be smashing on the big bears, and a very comforting companion in Alaska bear territory.   I'm excited to put this one on paper at the range and see what she'll do!

Remember, Mr. Gates let us all know about it here first!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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That really would be a sweet round for a #3. Many don't realize what a nice carry rifle these #3's are. Certainly lighter then a #1. I wish Ruger would find it in their heart to reintroduce the gun.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
RugerNo3....I'm like you, I have always liked the No3! It looked like a traditional American single shot. I would love to have one made up like the No 1 Light Sporter with a 20' barrel!!!! Marshall and I have been kicking this .416 x 2" Beartooth around over the past week. The problem was getting the neck long enough for his 375 gr bullet and still have enough powder capacity. I can hold the powder capacity to 49/50 grs of IMR. That will give the 335 gr @ 2000/2200 fps (depending on powder) It will fit the Marlins and short bolt guns like the Rem Mod 7. It should be an outstanding "Walk Around" gun. I'm sending Marshall the finished draeing tonight.
Best Regards from The Hammock....James
 

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Could a Model 95 Spanish mauser be used to make up a rifle with this cartridge? Is it strong enough or would it be more cost effective to find a second hand Marlin 336, rebarrel it and change things out?  The Marlin would have to be a big bore (444, 45-70, etc.) for tube magazine purposes, right?  Sounds like a great cartridge, if drawings and contacts are available could you please post them or send an e-mail/
Thanks,
Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Jeff...The Spanish Mauser runs about 44,000/45,000 psi limits. The .416x 2" Beartooth max's out at 42,000/43,000 psi....so the pressure is OK, However, the bolt face and action feed rails would have to be altered. Unless you can do the work yourself, I would hesitate to recommand it.By the time you spend for a new barrel,trigger,etc.you might be in too deep. The Rugers that are set up for .45-70 would be ideal. It wil also be a great single shot cartridge. Any bolt gun set up for .350 Remington Mag on the short action would be excellent. The belted rim of the .416x2" Beartooth is the same as the 7mm Rem.Mag.,.458 Win Mag, etc. I'm sure Marshall will have excellent thoughts on rifles for this new cartridge! We will be posting the spec. drawings and my workup on the development of the cartridge very soon. Watch for it.
Best Regards from The Hammock...James
 

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James,

Can you tell us just what is the parent case?

Where does this new cartridge stand in comparison to the 444Marlin, 457WWG, 450, and the 416 Barnes.  

I've often entertained the thought of rebarreling my Marlin 444SS, and find you cartridge interesting.  Certainly would cut down on the number of differernt caliber bullets I'd have to buy! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

How much money are we looking at for doing this job?

Thanks, and take care!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Brian...The .416x2" uses the basic .458 Win.Mag. case cut back to 2". It is like the .458x2" Barnes necked down to .416". The powder capacity is 50 grs of IMR type and 60 grs of Ball. Marshall now has the finished spec drawings and write up. We haven't got to the point of ordering reamers yet or even contacting gunsmiths. I plan on a family of 2" Beartooth cartridges... a .375x2" Beartooth is on the drawing boaerd now, to be followed with a .430x2" Beartooth.
The .430x2" Beartooth will duplicate the .444 Marlin, but will work for the bolt gun crowd. Maybe even a .358 Beartooth that will solve the problems with the .350 Rem. Mag's too shot neck for cast bullets. Although these wildcats are aimed at modern cast bullet designs, they will adapt to jacketed bullets very well.
Best Regards...James  

(Edited by James Gates at 4:28 am on Jan. 30, 2001)
 

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We just posted the complete write-up on the particulars of the .416x2" Beartooth on our Tech Notes this morning for those who would like a closer look at this cartridge, and have an idea of what its potiential will be.

Mr. Gates has done an outstanding job of putting this project together, and provided some very well researched information on its performance potential.

To take a look, here's a link:
www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm

Here is a look at the new cartridge!



Looks like a winner!  Many thanks to Mr. James Gates!

God Bless

Marshall
 

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Mr. Gates,  I'll be looking forward to hearing about your .358 Beartooth.  I've a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem that I've been looking to up grade.  At this point the .356 Rimless has had the inside track.  After reading about your .375 and .416 Beartooth cartridges, I believe I'll wait for a while.  After all, I've still got .35 Rem brass to use up.  :)

El Lobo in NM
 

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Discussion Starter #13
El Lobo...We are developing a family of Beartooth cartridges and sooner or later catch up. We started out with the .458 Winchester Mag as a parent case, however due to its very thick brass toward the base, I've changed over and designing around .350 Remington Mag. brass. This gives us more of the important powder capacity. The next thing I've got to do is revise the .416 Beartooth that was set up for an OAL of 2.47". I will retain the neck length, but will move the shoulder foward to make the new OAL @ 2.57"....This will give us more needed powder capacity. The .375 Beartooth is already set up for that shoulder. The forthcoming .358 Beartooth will has the same basic shape of the .350 Remington, but with a pushed back shoulder to cover the lube grooves of the Beartooth bullets. The 2.57" OAL is most important as to feed length in the Marlin. I am sorry I am behind, but I want this family of cartridges to be right! Thank you for hanging in there! Best Regards, James


(Edited by James Gates at 2:44 pm on Mar. 11, 2001)
 

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Mr. Gates,

Your efforts are turning out a family of cartridges that will greatly increase the utility of a fine line of rifles.  I wish I was able to be there to assist with the design process since these things have facinated me for half a lifetime.  Meanwhile, I'm modifying a Marlin 30-30 for my wife (5'3" kindergarten teacher) into what will certainly be an ultra-light Marlin carbine.  I've got plenty to keep me busy while you work "balistic magic" in your lab.

Best wishes,

Don "Lobo" Lohr in NM
 

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Hi all:

Any reamers, chambered barells, or finished rifles out there yet? This one seems too good to let die!
 

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Marshall,

I have a custom stocked Ruger#3 in .375 Win.BB and it would seem perfect to rechamber to .375 Beartooth. Would the barrel need to be set back, or just rechambered ?

oldpete
 

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Oldpete,

Actually a No.3 in .375 Win would make an excellent candidate for a simple rechamber job!  The 1:12 twist of the Ruger barrel would be excellent for such application, and that little light-weight carbine would be a joy in the field!

Look out for recoil!

Keep us posted!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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I keep comming back to this one! I am mathmaticly challanged, so filling all those tiny numbers on a reamer print is beyond me. How do I tell the reamer guy how to turn a .458X2 into a .416 Beartooth? HELP!

Also 1:18 barrels are hard to find and expensive, would a standard 1:14 wreck the thing? If I shell out $175 for a reamer, I like to try it out on a $90 A&B not a $400 custom cut rifled dream tube.

Thanks

zooly
 

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you might want to pm Gates on the subject, I'm sure he can help you out.

fill us in as you go on with your project-I would like to hear.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #20
To say I was surprised when this surfaced would be an understatment! At the time of the original post, we did a great deal of work calculating case capacity to get powder capacity. the length of the neck for Marshall's bullet, oveall length for the action........otherwords a total layout! Then, like so many other subjects on the forums, the interest drifted to some other project. The same results we saw with the .44 Mag Max (Mad Max). In that case three rifles were built.......one 336 conversion, and two NEF's. The cost of the reamers was never regained.
So....some serious thought should be done before any of these wildcat projects should be considered!
Regards, James
 
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