[Walt45]

Judge Hands Down Big Ruling on Dad Who Openly Carried Gun Inside Daughter’s ‘Gun-Free Zone’ School | TheBlaze.com

School to fight judge's ruling to allow gun-toting dad

A Michigan judge has ruled in favor of a father who wanted to open carry inside his daughter’s school, despite it being a “gun-free zone.”

Wow. Just wow. That judge will get some interesting phone calls.

 

[Easternhunter]

For Heavens sake.
What sane person would evoke the second rights' amendment in a school?
Firearm education begins at home.
Jim

 

[Webley]

Walt45,

WOW! Is right! I support Open Carry within the limits of Good Judgment. I agree that Open Carry is a good thing, but there are limits that gun owners need to comply with BEFORE they scare or alienate non-gun owners who are also voters and fellow citizens.

I would ask, why did the dad HAVE to Open Carry into a kindergarten or elementary school? Gun owners need to understand "In Your Face" expression of Gun Rights is Not good Public Relations with the rest of society. Gun owners need to be discreet to ensure our continued gun rights.

Last week I attended a cookout on 500 rural acres where we ate ribs and shrimp and shot handguns thereafter. Open Carry was "understood" by all on site. I do not think all the "soccer moms" at an elementary school appreciated the dad's open carry. All soccer moms vote and we do not need to scare them. Again, gun owners need to express Good Judgment, in my humble opinion.



Webley

 

[Cheezywan]

That guy is extremely fortunate that he did not get shot by an unarmed civilian that was not carrying a firearm as per the law.
I sure hope his daughter does not have to stay after school and do detention duty because of her dad!

Thanks Walt for the good news.

Cheezywan

 

[Walt45]

I know guys. I support open carry 100% but there is a time and place for everything. You scare average people more than criminals with open carry.

 

[Webley]

Walt45,

I totally agree with you. Every year the percentage of legal gun owners drops compared to the total, and Voting, population. Gun owners are a shrinking minority and we need to carefully ensure we do not alienate the non-gun owners. I oppose the "In Your Face" exhibition of Open Carry I recently saw on TV in a Burger King, McDonalds, or whatever store.

Again, good judgment and discretion is the way we need to travel. We have enough anti-gunners at present, we do not need to make more!

Webley

 

[Walt45]

The sad part is this story won't even show the idiocy that is gun-free zones. People won't see that a man got a gun into a school, just that he is some "crazy gun-nut". After all of this crap our kids are still just protected by a goofy sign.

 

[StretchNM]

Sorry fellows, I also think open carry has its limits based on my personal opinion, but I have to take a different fork. Our opinion is that he shouldn't open carry in the school (or Burger King, or the zoo, or wherever), but he also has an opinion. And the law permits it, so far. Sure - without any doubt - a principal or school teacher will have fear seeing an armed man on school grounds, but so will a Burger King employee, or the bird watcher in the woods when he sees you with a rifle. Everybody's afraid of guns. We're so afraid that we might even begin to support limiting open carry, without realizing the step it's taking toward our diminishing rights. If people are afraid of guns, and we're afraid that they're afraid, maybe we should join the anti-gun crowd.

The judge decided and, until another one does otherwise (and even then), I'll support the right to keep and bear arms, despite what my personal opinion might be.

Let me get this straight: principals, teachers, and 2nd Amendment supporters(?) have a problem with a man carrying his firearm in the open where all can see it, but it's ok if he hides it under his jacket the way drive-by gangsters do ("but at least the kids won;t see it and get scared!"). If people are afraid of seeing guns, or letting kids see guns, it's their perception that's the problem. We've allowed our schools to call police on 6 year-olds who draw a gun with a crayon on a piece of paper. We allow school teachers to berate and demean 9 year-olds because they proudly proclaim their father's service in the military; and then we get upset because a man wants to carry a pistol the way the law permits.

Leftists have opinions and, despite the legality of any issue, they can threaten and cajole others into doing things their way; or saying things their way. Why? Because they are of the opinion that it should be that way. Don't call illegal aliens "illegal" or "alien"; don't frown on us just because we support abortion but decry lion hunting; etc. I don't want to bully people into not carrying openly just because I don't think it's appropriate in this or that situation.

I applaud the judge.

 

[Irv S]

. Sure - without any doubt - a principal or school teacher will have fear seeing an armed man on school grounds,............ but so will the bird watcher in the woods when he sees you with a rifle.
I applaud the judge.

Twice I've had hikers express concern when they saw me with a holstered pistol in the woods, but I'm seeing more hikers carrying. My response to those who are concerned is "You're stupid not to carry one!"

One I remember is when I was packing out a deer I had shot above timberline about a year after a mountain lion had killed a jogger on the other side of the valley. Most hiking non-hunters are not anti-gun. At the same place in a subsequent season, a tourist from the East asked me if he could have his picture taken with the antlers I was packing out.

If you see me in the mountains without a pistol on my hip, it's because it got covered by my coat or I'm carrying a rifle. In settled areas though, I think concealed carry is far better.

 

[Walt45]

Everybody's afraid of guns. We're so afraid that we might even begin to support limiting open carry, without realizing the step it's taking toward our diminishing rights. If people are afraid of guns, and we're afraid that they're afraid, maybe we should join the anti-gun crowd.... If people are afraid of seeing guns, or letting kids see guns, it's their perception that's the problem.

As I've stated above, open carry should be 100% legal. There is no way that I'd support restricting a law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment rights. You are correct, everybody's afraid of guns out there these days. How do we fight it? First we have to remember that the soccer mom that sees your 1911 strapped to your hip doesn't care that you are not shooting random innocent people. Reality has no bearing on her view of you or your gun. All she sees is a freak that is responsible for the deaths of every 'gun-violence' victim for the past 10 years. Its sad and I wish I knew a way to change that. The judge decided to allow/not prosecute this guy. It does not matter that he hurt no one, just that he brought a gun to school and thats bad in the eyes of the soccer mom.

 

[MikeG]

We are going to get open carry in Texas as of Jan 1, 2016. It will be interesting to see how it goes as this state had a bunch of the 'activists' who insisted on taking their rifles to the mall just to thumb their noses at society (my personal take on it given some of their clothing, getup, and tactics).

I don't believe this will grant any right to open-carry in places where concealed carry is already prohibited (in school buildings, for example). Businesses will have the right to prohibit open carry, just as they have the right to prohibit concealed carry. It is pretty uncommon to find a sign prohibiting concealed carry even in Austin, hotbed of the anti-gun movement here, but there are a few.

Only difference is, you can carry concealed in a business that doesn't want it without anyone knowing (not that I would do such a thing ). Open carry, not so much.

In the example cited in the first post in this thread, I believe anyone (except law enforcement) doing that in Texas would end up in jail as the law is currently written.

 

[Math Teacher]

Shows how times have changed. Back in the sixties, seventies, and even the eighties, in the rural school where I taught, kids brought there rifles and shotguns to the school shop to work on them. I mounted several scopes for people in that shop. Sad!

 

[nvshooter]

Saw two gents open-carrying at the Love's gas station in town, last week. About an hour or so later, saw the same two in Walmart. One had his piece on his right hip; the other had his across his belt buckle for rapid right-hand extraction. I experienced no increase in heart rate, respiration or general uneasiness during either instance when I saw these two guys. Maybe law-abiding people with openly-carried guns don't bother me?

 

[TimSr]

I read this thinking wow, a judge says no to gun free zone. Then I find that its not about a gun free zone, its about "any time, any where, any way I want to, in your face" rights. Sure a pistol in a holster is nota big deal, but once that happnes, the next guy wants to dress in camo, and carry his AR or AK in his hands a nd sweep the room every time he turns. We have a Constitutional right to open carry. we have the right to be rude and obnoxious. We have the right to tell people to you know what themsselves. Right or wrong, the fastest way to lose a right is to exercise it with poor judgement or for the expressed purpose of offending those who don't share in it. A gun free zone that allows concealed carry? That's great, whats the next step to advance gun rights? Opern carry, or Constitutional concealed carry in gun free zones? Seems to me the best way to advance your 2A rights is to choose the path of most gain, with least alienation. I can think of a lot of causes I was indifferent to until they forced it into my face, and demanded I participate. Most people aren't used to the idea of concealed carry in a school yet. Have patience.

 

[Anne Shoots]

Timely post

Timely post this is.
Just yesterday the missus and I took the dog for our usual walk around a couple local parks and past a primary school.
Because the missus is on holidays we went during the day coz its winter here and it was a lovely sunny winters day - too good to be inside!.

Being the day time the school was in session (actually they were just getting let out so a madhouse of soccer mums in SUV's picking up their kids, in case any pedo abducted them while walking home as is the norm nowadays).

Anyway the local Police mounted squad was at the school for some kinda propaganda brainwashing day for the little kids... with a 4wd and horse float and 2 horses, - two nice lady police.. with blaze yellow vests over their uniforms... and riding the horses around the street and across the school oval which was all well and good.

What I thought was a little "overzealous" maybe, was the fact they felt the need to wear sidearms while visiting a school full of under 12's.

Theses days our Police can choose whether to open carry or not, and many more are choosing to so do as a matter of course, just so they are prepared for the unexpected should it occur at any time during the day.

I sort of agree with this...

But I am wondering - shouldn't our schools be declared 'gun free zones' for everyone including Police, if they are just there to give a talk / demonstration?

Different story if they are dispatched to the school coz someone armed is seen near bye or on the premises.....

I believe our nation has probably NEVER had a school shooting massacre...

We don't have a right to open carry at all...

I just don't see the need for police to open carry at a school on a propaganda day...

It was only a week or so back where I posted an article link about a police officer losing his gun...

What are the odds a lady officer bouncing along on a trotting horse might lose a loaded gun on school grounds out of her holster - for some child to pick up and discharge at another child?

I was kinda thinking about taking a walk down to the local station to have a chat with the Sarge and see what his thoughts were about the "appropriateness of it".

Remembering this isn't USA, its hard for anyone (except criminals) to get a gun - specially a hand gun - should Police be taking loaded side arms open carry into primary schools for promotional days?

Maybe i am just too old school...

Back in my day ONLY detectives carried guns or armed payroll escorts etc. Guns weren't a day to day wear around on patrol item for constables - you signed one out from the armory, if you were sent to a job that it was thought you might need one and you signed it back in when you returned from that job.

Times sure have changed when women constables are wearing them while on horseback at primary schools on promotional days.

 

[xjsdvr]

It seems like all this did...

was teach a bunch of kids --- If you don't like a law/rule, just break it.

 

[Irv S]

Timely post this is.
Just yesterday the missus and I took the dog for our usual walk around a couple local parks and past a primary school.
Because the missus is on holidays we went during the day coz its winter here and it was a lovely sunny winters day - too good to be inside!.

Being the day time the school was in session (actually they were just getting let out so a madhouse of soccer mums in SUV's picking up their kids, in case any pedo abducted them while walking home as is the norm nowadays).

Anyway the local Police mounted squad was at the school for some kinda propaganda brainwashing day for the little kids... with a 4wd and horse float and 2 horses, - two nice lady police.. with blaze yellow vests over their uniforms... and riding the horses around the street and across the school oval which was all well and good.

What I thought was a little "overzealous" maybe, was the fact they felt the need to wear sidearms while visiting a school full of under 12's.

Theses days our Police can choose whether to open carry or not, and many more are choosing to so do as a matter of course, just so they are prepared for the unexpected should it occur at any time during the day.

I sort of agree with this...

But I am wondering - shouldn't our schools be declared 'gun free zones' for everyone including Police, if they are just there to give a talk / demonstration?

Different story if they are dispatched to the school coz someone armed is seen near bye or on the premises.....

I believe our nation has probably NEVER had a school shooting massacre...

We don't have a right to open carry at all...

I just don't see the need for police to open carry at a school on a propaganda day...

It was only a week or so back where I posted an article link about a police officer losing his gun...

What are the odds a lady officer bouncing along on a trotting horse might lose a loaded gun on school grounds out of her holster - for some child to pick up and discharge at another child?

I was kinda thinking about taking a walk down to the local station to have a chat with the Sarge and see what his thoughts were about the "appropriateness of it".

Remembering this isn't USA, its hard for anyone (except criminals) to get a gun - specially a hand gun - should Police be taking loaded side arms open carry into primary schools for promotional days?

Maybe i am just too old school...

Back in my day ONLY detectives carried guns or armed payroll escorts etc. Guns weren't a day to day wear around on patrol item for constables - you signed one out from the armory, if you were sent to a job that it was thought you might need one and you signed it back in when you returned from that job.

Times sure have changed when women constables are wearing them while on horseback at primary schools on promotional days.

I have no idea on what the regulations for police carry are in Australia. I suspect in the USA, the regulations vary among the various police agencies (I've read, but haven't verified, that there are over different 100 police agencies in our federal government alone (it seems every department, sub-department, etc must have their own police force) and then there are the various state, county, and city agencies).

My opinion, (worth what you pay for it) is that if an open carry holster is prescribed as part of the uniform it should be worn whenever the uniform is worn and if in the officer is in civilian clothing it should be carried concealed.

Saw an individual the other day, in a super market parking lot, wearing a Glock open carry and a belt buckle looking like a law enforcement badge. Don't know if he was a rent-a-cop or what, but I thought it was stupid and figured he was a "macho-wanna-be".

 

[MikeG]

Timely post this is.
Just yesterday the missus and I took the dog for our usual walk around a couple local parks and past a primary school.
Because the missus is on holidays we went during the day coz its winter here and it was a lovely sunny winters day - too good to be inside!.

Being the day time the school was in session (actually they were just getting let out so a madhouse of soccer mums in SUV's picking up their kids, in case any pedo abducted them while walking home as is the norm nowadays).

Anyway the local Police mounted squad was at the school for some kinda propaganda brainwashing day for the little kids... with a 4wd and horse float and 2 horses, - two nice lady police.. with blaze yellow vests over their uniforms... and riding the horses around the street and across the school oval which was all well and good.

What I thought was a little "overzealous" maybe, was the fact they felt the need to wear sidearms while visiting a school full of under 12's.

Theses days our Police can choose whether to open carry or not, and many more are choosing to so do as a matter of course, just so they are prepared for the unexpected should it occur at any time during the day.

I sort of agree with this...

But I am wondering - shouldn't our schools be declared 'gun free zones' for everyone including Police, if they are just there to give a talk / demonstration?

Different story if they are dispatched to the school coz someone armed is seen near bye or on the premises.....

I believe our nation has probably NEVER had a school shooting massacre...

We don't have a right to open carry at all...

I just don't see the need for police to open carry at a school on a propaganda day...

It was only a week or so back where I posted an article link about a police officer losing his gun...

What are the odds a lady officer bouncing along on a trotting horse might lose a loaded gun on school grounds out of her holster - for some child to pick up and discharge at another child?

I was kinda thinking about taking a walk down to the local station to have a chat with the Sarge and see what his thoughts were about the "appropriateness of it".

Remembering this isn't USA, its hard for anyone (except criminals) to get a gun - specially a hand gun - should Police be taking loaded side arms open carry into primary schools for promotional days?

Maybe i am just too old school...

Back in my day ONLY detectives carried guns or armed payroll escorts etc. Guns weren't a day to day wear around on patrol item for constables - you signed one out from the armory, if you were sent to a job that it was thought you might need one and you signed it back in when you returned from that job.

Times sure have changed when women constables are wearing them while on horseback at primary schools on promotional days.

I guess it depends on what you are used to. I have dropped my kid off at school and have seen a fully uniformed, armed, police officer doing the same on multiple occasions, and never gave it a second thought.

In a discussion with a neighbor who was an officer, when he was out of uniform he kept his badge on his belt next to his holstered duty sidearm, and I have seen other officers doing the same. This might vary by department policy.

 

[Webley]

Anne Shoots,

As a former uniformed officer and later plain clothes agent, I see no problems with either officers being armed on school grounds. If you are concerned about those lady officers loosing their guns on a trotting horse, perhaps you should advise the Sarge at the local station to ensure proper holsters are issued to uniformed officers. The holsters today secure handguns.

To MikeG's point: All federal agencies I worked with required handguns be concealed while on duty by jacket, shirt, vest or sweater. If no covering garment was employed, the agents were all issued BIG badges that were required to be worn next to the holstered handgun on the belt. I stressed this regulation twice a year when I conducted semi-annual firearms qualification to my 100+/- agents in New England.


Webley

 

[MikeG]

We have mounted officers in Austin. They patrol the downtown bar/entertainment district, as being up on a horse tends to let them see over the crowd better than any other means. I'm sure they have figured out what retention is needed on horseback. Shouldn't be that complicated as Webley notes.