[JFB]

Hi all, I did some searches but have some questions to help me with me selection for a new scoped handgun.

First, I want the gun to be able to have trigger work done on it so that it can be a light trigger pull. Also, I won't be doing any hand loads.

Secondly, I really only need to shoot out to about 150 yards and I want a caliber that does not deafen you (without ear protection) or pound you with super hard recoil. (as for comparison, I have a Lone Eagle .308 which is more than I need and I also have a Super Blackhawk 44mag and would like something in between those if possible).

What calibers would you suggest in a Encore or Contender and why? Thanks

 

[Old Grump]

Would prefer a 41 or 44 mag myself but for your purposes you might want to check out the .243

 

[JimboLLN]

I've never owned or shot one but have read good things about the 7mm-08

 

[JFB]

choices

I might have it down to a TC Contender in either 30/30 or possibly the 7mm/08 in "low recoil" rounds.

 

[JimboLLN]

I have the Contender in 30/30. If I were given a choise I would trade it for a 7mm08 any day,

 

[Tom W.]

There ain't one that won't deafen you without ear protection....

 

[pruhdlr]

Contender ??

Don't believe that a Contender will be chambered in 7-08.

A 14" Contender chambered in .30-30 will fit into your handgun hunting needs. Plenty of factory ammo(and cheap). Mild(ish) recoil. Good(ish) to 150 with the right bullet. Remember that you will find no factory ammo('cept Lever Evolution)that has a pointed bullet so that will limit your range to some extent.

A Contender can definitely be slicked up as to trigger pull AND accuracy. Mine are.

Good Shootin' -----pruhdlr

 

[JFB]

?

Jimbo... what are the factors that make you want to switch from your 30/30 to the 7mm08?

Purhdlr (and others)... Although I DO want my pistol to be able to reach 150 yards, most of my shots on deer will be between 50 and 90 yards. Which round (30/30 or the managed recoil 7mm08) would perform better at deer on those close ranges, all the while also be effective at 150yrds? Thanks for opinions...

 

[JimboLLN]

Jimbo... what are the factors that make you want to switch from your 30/30 to the 7mm08?

...

The 30/30 is a great pistol, but lacking in any hydraulic shock effect which in my eyes and experience is what puts deer down, and if it doesn't kill them with first shot will let you easily get a 2nd killer shot.

I can't find any on line balistics info to compare the Rem 7mm08 to the 30/30 but you can bet the 08 will be higher velocity and shoot flater. While high velocity is not of great importance in some rounds, as some kill by shear weight/velocity, the 30/30 falls short in my opinion in every way except with a heart/lung shot which you will still have to track it down, done it too many times and never had one just fall down with 30/30.

As I've said I never owned a 7mm08 the velocity difference is enough that tells me that it will both kill and kncok them down on the spot, which is what I want. I'm too old to chase deer for a 100 yds through swamps and too lazy.

Believe I'm not trying to start an argument as 30/30 has taken many more deer then 7mm08 simply because of the years of history and numbers of guns owned, but the 30/30 is little different then an old style muzzleloader firing a round ball as far as kill goes.

Now if you want to know my real choice for a hand held deer pistol I would get an Encore chambered in 7mm08 or .243 Win.

My son and I were both made believers in high velocity kills. Its just neat to watch them drop down and not have to track them.

30/30 will most definetly kill deer though, but the shot placment has to be right and be prepared to track at least 60-80 yds. Truthfully I've never droped one with 30/30 in under 80yds and in high grass hat can be hard to track, was for me.

 

[broom_jm]

JFB,

What you're asking for just doesn't exist.

The Contender and Encore can be worked to provide excellent trigger pull and near-MOA accuracy, for sure, but for a handgun cartridge to reach out and kill a deer at 150 yards, it needs bullet weight and velocity, at the muzzle. Your 44Mag is great to around 100 yards and the 308 is a pretty sure bet, out to 200. The thing is, there is nothing I know of that is in-between those two, in terms of power, and offered in over-the-counter ammo, that will meet your needs.

Learn to reload and you'll find a whole world of wildcats to provide what you're looking for, plus you'll have a great new hobby! Personally, I believe that all single-shot hunting pistols benefit greatly from hand loading your own ammo because you can select a bullet and powder that suit short barrels and lower velocity.

 

[JFB]

Thanks Jimbo. A couple of honest questions (not being wise)...

When you're shooting your deer with the 7mm08 and they drop on the spot, where are you usually hitting them? I assume they don't drop on the spot if you hit him in the center of the ribs/lungs when broadside?

Also, most of my shots will be in the 50-90 yard range and I wonder if the 7mm08 bullet won't open up and perform at that close range?

Lastly, I already own a .308 Lone Eagle single shot and I wanted to get away from those monster rounds because they deafen me beyond reason and kick quite a bit. That is why I'm a little hesitant to repeat those issues with a 7mm08. That is why I was leaning toward the 30/30 but was curious of your 7mm08 experiences without hearing protection and kick.

 

[JimboLLN]

As I stated before, I have not owner or shot a 7mm08. I've talked to guys who have an all liked them. The nice thing about the 7mm08 is a wide choice of bullet selection. I would choose something between 125-140gr. The recoil should be managable. As for doing a good job between the ranges you asked, any bullet will perform better at the closest range as opposed to a further range, so your answer would be yes.

any caliber heavier then 7mm08 is going to bring pain, as you've found out with your .308, but before you through away the .308 try a lighter bullet, again between 125-140gr.

 

[JFB]

hobby

Broom_jm, so what would your thoughts be of the 30/30 handgun at 150 yards? Are you saying you typically need hand loads to get the velocity needed over 100 yards?

Also, I thought I had heard there were some reputable internet sites or on line stores that specialize in selling hand loads. Is that true, if so, can someone point me to a good one? (I really don't have the time for a new hobby such as handloading).

 

[broom_jm]

Broom_jm, so what would your thoughts be of the 30/30 handgun at 150 yards? Are you saying you typically need hand loads to get the velocity needed over 100 yards?

Also, I thought I had heard there were some reputable internet sites or on line stores that specialize in selling hand loads. Is that true, if so, can someone point me to a good one? (I really don't have the time for a new hobby such as handloading).

JFB,

Pretty much all of the 30/30 rounds you find on the shelf of your local gun store are going to be loaded with flat-pointed bullets, so they're safe in a tubular magazine. That bullet shape, combined with the lower MV of a pistol barrel is going to make a 150 yard shot right at the outside limits of what that gun can do. Now, if you load your own bullets, you can stick a lighter weight, pointed bullet in that 30/30 case and not only bring the velocity up but retain it better, for longer shots.

Personally, I'm very fond of my 7-30 Waters in a 14" Contender barrel. It prints some very nice groups and with 120gr Nosler BTs, will certainly change a deer's dinner plans. There are a number of very good wildcats, or standard offerings that benefit from hand loading. It doesn't take a lot to learn how to do it, just a little space where you can relax and enjoy the process.

As far as custom ammo loading, I'm sure there are such businesses, but since I've rolled my own for about 20 years now, I wouldn't know where to begin to look. One thing I can tell you is, for the price they're likely to charge, 3 or 4 boxes worth and you'll be giving reloading another thought.

 

[JimboLLN]

I would be very careful in buying your loads from someone who is known to load "safe loads" only. Anyone can overstuff a 30/30 casing, or others, I've done it but never again. I'm not saying there aren't good safe loads to be had, but do be careful in what and whom you buy from.

One other thing to consider in buying hand loads is are they accurate? Most hot roddeed loads aren't accurate at all. One can usually bump the factory loads a little with the right powder butoften you may sacrifice accuracy.

Its better to buy a caliber that factory loads get you where you want to go unless you are going to try loading yourself, but learning safe high power loads doen't come over night. If you should decied to look into loading be sure to get good advice and buy good equipment the 1st time around.

again, I'm not trying to influence you into buying a 7mm08. The 30/30 is very popular and has killed many deer, but if recoil is a major consideration then I will say there will be less recoil with a 7mm08 then a heavy loaded 30/30 with 150gr bullets or higher. I've shot both rifle and pistol. Rifle is a kittykat, pistol is not. I believe the 30/30 is a heavier kicker then .44mag in Contender pistol. I own them both.

 

[hillestadj]

First off I want to say I dont have any experience with the round or the gun, BUT my uncle shoots one of the Remington single shots (XP 100 I believe) chambered in .35 Rem and does quite well with it. Seems to me that would suit your needs pretty nicely and you could run the plastic tipped Hornady rounds through it.

 

[JFB]

Thanks

More interesting comments... especially what Jimbo said about a regular 7mm08 being less kick than a hot hand loaded 30/30. Would the same be said for the loudness of the 7mm08 to a hand loaded 30/30?
(one of the biggest things I want is to be able to shoot in the field without ear protection and not have my ears blown out).

I also know the "managed (low) recoil" loads are available. That might be something to consider for the 7mm08 to take a little off it. Any comments on what I'd accomplish with the "low recoil" factory round? I'm wondering if that is the happy medium to be able to keep enough steam at the 100+ ranges, but not have the complete kick and noise...

 

[broom_jm]

More interesting comments... especially what Jimbo said about a regular 7mm08 being less kick than a hot hand loaded 30/30. Would the same be said for the loudness of the 7mm08 to a hand loaded 30/30?
(one of the biggest things I want is to be able to shoot in the field without ear protection and not have my ears blown out).

I also know the "managed (low) recoil" loads are available. That might be something to consider for the 7mm08 to take a little off it. Any comments on what I'd accomplish with the "low recoil" factory round? I'm wondering if that is the happy medium to be able to keep enough steam at the 100+ ranges, but not have the complete kick and noise...

JFB,

All respect to Jimbo, but I would not blindly accept that the 7mm-08 has lower recoil than the 30/30, especially if both are standard factory ammo. The operating pressure of a 30/30 is around 38K and the 7-08 is up over 50K. I understand that the 30 caliber bullet is heavier, but the simple fact that you cannot even use a Contender for the 7-08 should make it clear it is in a completely different category from the 30/30. Both are a handful in a pistol-length barrel, with the 7-08 likely to create substantially more muzzle blast.

I suppose you could use reduced power loads, but without knowing the velocity and energy of the bullet from those loads, it's hard to say whether or not they would meet your needs.

 

[gene]

I've used a .30/30 TC Contender (14 inch barrel) to hunt white tail. I did well with it from 20 to 130 yards. I used several bullets and loads but finally settled on a 135 grain bullet with IMR 4227. I don't have the exact load with me right now, but it is actually an upper level .30 Herrett load.

Remember the .30 Herrett is based on a shortened .30/30 case. It was developed for use in 10 inch pistols, so the load data is valid for The .30/30 in a Contender the .30/30 case is not as efficient in the 10 inch barrel. The load made the Contender a whole world of difference in both accuracy and usability.

Regards,
Gene

 

[JimboLLN]

JFB,

All respect to Jimbo, but I would not blindly accept that the 7mm-08 has lower recoil than the 30/30, especially if both are standard factory ammo. The operating pressure of a 30/30 is around 38K and the 7-08 is up over 50K. I understand that the 30 caliber bullet is heavier, but the simple fact that you cannot even use a Contender for the 7-08 should make it clear it is in a completely different category from the 30/30. Both are a handful in a pistol-length barrel, with the 7-08 likely to create substantially more muzzle blast.

I suppose you could use reduced power loads, but without knowing the velocity and energy of the bullet from those loads, it's hard to say whether or not they would meet your needs.

I've used a .30/30 TC Contender (14 inch barrel) to hunt white tail. I did well with it from 20 to 130 yards. I used several bullets and loads but finally settled on a 135 grain bullet with IMR 4227. I don't have the exact load with me right now, but it is actually an upper level .30 Herrett load.

Remember the .30 Herrett is based on a shortened .30/30 case. It was developed for use in 10 inch pistols, so the load data is valid for The .30/30 in a Contender the .30/30 case is not as efficient in the 10 inch barrel. The load made the Contender a whole world of difference in both accuracy and usability.

Regards,
Gene

If you wouldn't mind Gene, please shoot me a PM with your load data. I studied the 30/30 Harrett long time ago, neat little round. Do you know what pressure it shoots at?