[makitaman60]

Not sure if this is the right place, but just have to speak up. I guess Browning really dont care if they help you or not, just like other companies of today. I can remember when people would bend over backwards to help you. Now if you try and contact them, they want you to read all their FAQ, who gives a rats *-#$ about a bunch of questions & answers they have come up with. If you try and call, they put you on hold, and you listen to them preaching about their Website and all the information on their, and you haven't made human contact yet. If we don’t speak up and complain here we dont get heard. We have got to let these manufacturers know that their is a communications break down. We go out and buy our Brownings,Remingtons, etc because thats what our fathers and grandfathers swore by. Well what we're getting today isn't what they we're getting then. We want our customer support back, I want a qualified tech on the phone and not some snotty nose individual that never sees the customer, but just a number on a board when sales are up or down. They dont care if you return it, trade it, or chunk it. We need forum topic just for things like this. We're the only voice left. Thanks

 

[kdub]

Thanks for the rant.

Don't think there's a need for another forum just so folks can blow off steam - we seem to get plenty of it in this and the other forums as it is.

Have to agree getting a list of FAC's on a website or stuck on "hold" on the phone as the recorded voice implies I'm a dummy for not going to the website to begin with. Hard to get someones personal attention, and then, try to convey my concerns to a person in Bangladesh, India or Malaysia. Guess its all in the name of economy.

 

[smokinfz1]

If a company does not give proper customer service dont buy their prducts anymore and let everyone you know why they shouldn't either, and don't even tell the company why. If enough people do this they'll be scratching their heads when sales fall.

 

[Shawn Crea]

If there were a 'complaint' forum here, how much good would it really do? None of us can verify the validity of the complaints other than those we personally know about through friends, etc. And will those complaints ever make it back to the manufacturer, from here? Who could tell if a certain complaint was from a competing manufacturer stirring the pot?

"...don't tell the company why." That doesn't give the company a chance to remedy, so not much would be accomplished. If a company is non-responsive after reasonable attempts, then yes, dump them.

Most websites have a 'contact' option, via email where you can lodge complaints. That's where they'll have their impact, and where they should be. If you bought a new product and sent in a warranty card, you'll be in their system where they'll maybe give the complaint some validity. If you bought a used product, chances of satisfaction are less.

Second-hand complaints are probably mostly dismissed, for valid reasons. I'm not suggesting makitaman's falls in this category. We just don't want to be policing grievances here.

 

[William Iorg]

Yes, then we would need a compliment forum.
I called Freedom arms a few weeks ago and I have to say I have never found a friendlier bunch of folks to talk too; I was on the phone a lot longer than I thought I would be and came away from the call very happy. I can say the same for Wolfe Publishing. So at least a few folks still understand customer service.
When I call Lyman, I am always nervous, you never know with whom you will speak. One day you will speak with a shooter who really makes your day, the next time with someone who has no idea what there products are. Luck of the draw.
I do know customer service in this internet age counts a great deal as word of mouth on the internet is a powerful tool.

 

[unclenick]

Agree. I would, indeed, tell the company why I wasn't planning on dealing with them anymore. Write directly to the company President and not Customer Service because this is about the tools the company tells Customer Service it has to work with. Copy the Chairman of the Board (a stock prospectus will get you that information).

FAQ's can be daunting, but assuming your browser has a word finding function, you can search them for relevant titles. I've never yet found a company that insisted their FAQ's contain every possible answer. Some don't even know the answer to 43 (the ultimate question) is 44 (the ultimate answer—at least, according to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy it is). So, somewhere is a button to skip past all that.

I had a snotty email wrong answer to a question from a software company one time. I asked a question and got an irrelevant answer that talked right past my question, followed by a statement pointing out I could have found that irrelevant answer for myself in the FAQ. Well, obviously I could, and obviously I wouldn't want to. My response was that I pay them enough for their product, but they don't pay me enough to subsidize their Customer Service by researching their FAQ for them.

 

[mgrace]

Some don't even know the answer to 43 (the ultimate question) is 44 (the ultimate answer—at least, according to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy it is). So, somewhere is a button to skip past all that.

42 the ultimate answer is 42.

Michael Grace

 

[unclenick]

That's what I remembered, too. 42. Then, like a dummy, I did a web search and saw the above quoted. Turned out it wasn't real. Just a viewer comment being picked up by Google. I need to watch what I read.

 

[Ko Improbable]

There is, however, another side to the coin.
I've worked computer tech support, and hated every minute of it. For every call from a person that had even clue #1, there were dozens of calls from people who were irate because they'd made a mistake and were blaming it on us. Gun tech support problems?

"Your gun doesn't work because you haven't put ammunition in it yet." "What?! I have to buy *more* stuff for this to work? This was expensive enough!"

"Have you cleaned your gun since you bought it five years ago?" "No, do I have to?" "Yes, and that's why your gun isn't working." "Don't try to pawn your quality control issues off on me!!"

"No, I won't explain how to make your gun fully automatic, no matter how many times you threaten to talk to my supervisor."

Real, actual, calls dealing with faulty products would be infrequent. 99% of calls would be because the user had an issue caused by their lack of understanding of the product. Further, by the end of most of these misunderstanding-based errors, the customer feels somewhat upset because the fact that you effortlessly handled the problem they'd been struggling with for days has left them feeling like a moron. They feel ashamed for not having figured it out themselves, they don't like feeling ashamed, so they get upset.

This is why FAQs exist. If you eliminate even 50% of the calls by having a suitably comprehensive FAQ, that means fewer tech support personnel needed, which keeps the cost of the guns down. If you don't have to admit to another human being that you didn't understand something, you'll feel less ashamed, and thus less upset. If it takes you a half hour on a website to diagnose and correct your problem, it probably won't cost you much to do it. If you call long distance to talk to a tech support person for the same time, it'll cost you a fair bit more.

Should the tech support people ask you if you checked the FAQ? No, not really. You're already on the phone, and telling you to do that, while it might be time saving for both of you, isn't going to make you happier. Management may tell them to tell you that, so don't automatically assume it's the tech being a jerk. I was told to tell customers plenty of stupid and, at times, completely untrue things.

 

[MikeG]

I'm with KO. Being on the phone with people who haven't bothered to read any simple written directions is beyond painful. Yes..... I have had to remind people to check that the equipment is in fact plugged in and getting power....

 

[unclenick]

More than once I've spent ten of fifteen minutes puzzling over a dead circuit only to find that I, myself, did not plug it in. And I do know better.

I'll agree that I've encountered many persons who lead rich fantasy lives when it comes to cause and effect. Having done consumer electronics repair for a time in the distant past, I will agree the general public is worst about this, but the industrial public still has plenty of fellows with very original reality constructs, too.

I think the key to KO's statement is the quality of the FAQ. Many are poorly written, randomly or poorly organized. People who don't have a fundamentally valid concept of what they are doing are not likely to be enlightened by a confusing, mislabeled, jargon-filled, or incomplete FAQ. They won't likely be able follow something with multiple linked layers of information.

The problem with the above is FAQ's and help files can be organized to take more time than waiting on hold. That's probably a good measure of the break point. If I can solve something faster looking through a FAQ list than I can by calling what Clark Howard refers to as "customer no service", then I will be motivated to use it.

All that said, I have to say my one experience with Browning customer service was good. I'd had my A-bolt disassembled for a period of months and forgot whether a slight bend in a flat spring under the action tang was meant to be installed bend up or bend down. Either could tension the fit screw. I believed it was intended to be bend up, but wanted to double-check. The exploded view I have just shows a line where the bend is, but otherwise looks flat (the draftsman may not have known, either). So, I called Browning. Got a friendly fellow who double-checked his drawing and confirmed my supposition. No problem. I don't recall the wait was especially long, either. That was maybe three or four years ago. It might be different now.

 

[smokinfz1]

I am a firm believer that customer service should be number 1 on a company's priority list. My earlier response was hastey at best. After reading some of you guys actual experiences with customers I revoke my earlier response. I can see that customer service would be over consumed with people needing to fill out the I-D-10-T form.

 

[broom_jm]

I think a lot of us have been on both sides of the fence, when it comes to customer service. We've tried to help folks who were not satisfied with a product or service, regardless of what the root of the problem really was and we have all been the recipient of poor or non-existent customer service. I will go so far as to say that folks these days really do not expect, nor do they receive, excellent service for most consumer items they purchase. In many respects, we have become more of a self-service kind of society, where grace and gratuity are largely forgotten.

However, I am also honest enough to admit that if I am patient enough, and my expectations are not too high, I can usually negotiate an agreeable outcome to most of my customer service requests. A case in point occurred when I contacted H&R (now part of the Remington/ATK conglomerate) and informed them that a used gun I had purchased came with a 30-'06 barrel that exhibited a severe headspace issue. The gentleman I talked to on the phone was clueless; he clearly had no idea what a headspace issue was and I would be surprised to learn he owned a gun at all. Still, he gave me the address where I could mail the gun in and have it examined. I was later contacted by a much more knowledgeable individual who explained that the barrel would be replaced and the gun was returned to me less than a month after I sent it in.

Perhaps not the speediest service, but as I was not even the original owner of the gun, I was still fairly well-pleased.

 

[unclenick]

I've always had good results with actual gun returns, too. It seems like domestic outfits all have at least some people inside who can respond to legitimate complaints about flaws or accuracy problems. It costs something to send one in, but then you get some personal attention on it that an assembly line doesn't supply.

 

[Ole1830]

I always thought it was exceptionally rude for a company to make you answer half a dozen questions before you get to talk to a person that can help you.

I guess, when a business does that, what they are trying to tell you is they don't care about you and their time is more important then your time.

 

[scottrussell]

Most of my equipment is Lee...with the exception of my 3 die carbide RCBS set. It is old and i bought it used at a gun show. I broke the de primeing pin. I looked up their web sight and sent them a message with the info stamped on the die...as it was old i didn't know if it was a common part anymore....they imiediatly sent me a message that they were sending me a new SET of replacement pins and a new stem...free of charge, no questions asked. That was certainly not what i expected. I can tell you that because of their customer service,any new reloading equipment i get will be RCBS.

 

[smokinfz1]

RCBS knows how to treat a customer albeit you pay for their products. I highly recommend them for their customer service. I was having an issue with my RCBS hand priming tool not seating the primers deep enough in my 7mm rem mag loads. Same set up was used for 270 rounds and the primers would be about .005" below the rim just like it should be, I set up for the 7mm rem mag. would leave the primers about .006" protruding. I finally called RCBS and had to deal with a computer like everywhere, it asked me one question and I selected customer service. Then a recording came on told me my expected wait would be 11 minutes, and then it gave me the number I was in queue, and about every 2 minutes it would tell me again what number I was in line. So at least I wasn't just hanging out in space without a clue what was going on. Knowing that number really pacified me, something so simple, I would advise all companies to add this to their system. I contiued to hold until I was the next caller in queue, then about a minute later a guy anwers, I tell him my issue, he says it is a known issue and that some of the large plungers had been shipped that were too short, took my addresss, and said a new one would be shipped. Three days later it arrives and I pull out my dial calipers and sure enough the new plunger measures .015" longer than my original. Problem solved

 

[unclenick]

Dillon is the same way. A couple of times I've had broken parts, including a casting, and I called the toll-free number and they just sent a new one. Didn't even ask to for the old one back. I don't know how Redding does, as nothing of theirs has ever broken on me.

If you enjoy a good phone answering message, call Hornady sometime.

 

[scott0116]

I have had to call lee three times once because i broke a decap pin and another time when i broke the indexer on a load-fast 12 ga press and another time on a powder measure and they sent the parts right out to me free of charge no questions asked.

 

[slim 60]

i was a fair fixit man in my younger days.. an elderly, neighbor brought his push mower over because it wouldn t crank..after looking it over i saw the problem.. gas tank was empty.. put gas in an she cranks first pull. i wish all fixits were that easy..
after thinking it over, i kinda came to believe he just wanted to talk to somebody..slim