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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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I'll take a swing at this one:

Unsafe shooting practices, such as firing from an elevated barrel, firing without being 100% sure of your backdrop and firing at movement instead of a clear, unrestricted target, pose great risks, irrespective of the type of gun being fired. There should be archery-only areas, where human habitation is too dense. Areas that are not so densely populated should be open to deer hunting with a firearm and not restricted to pistol, shotgun, ML or other such "short-range" weapon.

As a whole, deer hunters are incredibly safe with their firearms. When you consider the huge number of hunters in the woods each fall, and the number of shots fired at game, the statistics on accidental shootings reflect a commitment to safety that clearly shows very few hunters make the mistakes listed above. More to the point, there is absolutely zero evidence that proves short-range firearms improve upon this margin of safety.

To sum it up, an unsafe person with any gun is a danger to others; the type of gun he's firing, or the range it is capable of, is immaterial. The only way to make the woods safer is by making the person with the gun safer, not limiting what guns can be carried. What frustrates many experienced hunters is how many of our own brethren, fellow hunters, actually accept and even promote such legislation. The logic completely escapes me.
 

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> firing without being 100% sure of your backdrop

I agree, being aware of the situation is the important factor.

Just to toss something in, we have had at least four people die of tasers, two separate people die from wrong addresses given to SWAT drug teams, and no hunters killed in my section of GA within the past year. Plus, the old lady that had a heart attack when she opened her trailer door and saw the armed swat team outside.

> As a whole, deer hunters are incredibly safe with their firearms.

Hog hunters too because i think it is open season on them all year if hunting on your own property.
 

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I'd have to ask at a dangerous risk to who ? it would be irregular at least to hunt any hoofed critter with a shotgun, good chance most laws would probably frown on it under any circumstances.
Getting close enough to make a clean kill with any slug or shot would be a huge problem unless the hunted animal is deaf, blind, crippled and stupid, perhaps then a clean kill to the back of it's empty skull would be possible.
I know the US has different laws between the states and to other countries, as do we but hunting deer with a shotgun would most likely be illegal and rather cruel under most any hunting code of ethics.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't know where to start.

I'd have to ask at a dangerous risk to who ? it would be irregular at least to hunt any hoofed critter with a shotgun, good chance most laws would probably frown on it under any circumstances.
Getting close enough to make a clean kill with any slug or shot would be a huge problem unless the hunted animal is deaf, blind, crippled and stupid, perhaps then a clean kill to the back of it's empty skull would be possible.
I know the US has different laws between the states and to other countries, as do we but hunting deer with a shotgun would most likely be illegal and rather cruel under most any hunting code of ethics.
Digisol:

From your post, I can only surmise that you are not familiar with the capabilities of big game shotgun loads or simply have never considered that such loads exist. If you have only been exposed to the use of shotguns against small game and birds, I can understand how your perceptions may have been influenced. The advances in shotgun ammunition over the last several decades has, in many cases, extended the effective range of the shotgun into what was once thought of as exclusively rifle territory. A cursory examination of the literature, (online as it were), would make this very clear.

This discussion is not about the effectiveness of shotguns against deer size game. Rather, the question is, are laws preventing the use of rifles - for safety reasons - legitimate.

RMc
 

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I'd have to ask at a dangerous risk to who ? it would be irregular at least to hunt any hoofed critter with a shotgun, good chance most laws would probably frown on it under any circumstances.
Getting close enough to make a clean kill with any slug or shot would be a huge problem unless the hunted animal is deaf, blind, crippled and stupid, perhaps then a clean kill to the back of it's empty skull would be possible.
I know the US has different laws between the states and to other countries, as do we but hunting deer with a shotgun would most likely be illegal and rather cruel under most any hunting code of ethics.
There are many states in the US that do not allow rifle hunting at all....NJ comes to mind, as it was a shotgun only state. NJ had a small window for black powder hunting, which allowed rifles, but that was it...no centerfire.

Digi....do your research. There are slug guns out there that are accurate out to 150 yards. MANY deer have fallen to shotguns....ethically too I will add.
 

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Digisol,

Advancements in shotgun slug design, including sabotted bullets, have radically improved their effective range. Any deer struck in a vital area with a modern shotgun slug is going to expire just as quickly as it would if hit with a center-fire rifle. If anything, these guns are way too much gun to use on deer, for the distances they are capable of shooting.
 

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digisol,

I'd read up on shotgun slugs if I were you. As someone with a lot of shotgun hunting experience I can assure you that there are few things as devistating as a shotgun when it comes to deer hunting inside 100 yards.
 

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The problem is twofold, our laws prohibit specific hunting hoofed animals with shotgun only, as I see so does many of your own states prohibit in a similar set of rules, while if I read the vast amount of different laws your under depending on what state you live in.

The ammunition spoken of in this style of shotgun hunting is simply not available here, I have looked and it's either something bought on a specific order basis or is not imported here, where the largest / uglyest 12g ammo available within 600 kms would be 000 buck or a SG 00 buck magnum at different weights of 12g solid slug or the likes of a Rem copper hollow point sabot in 1oz and up to 1.5oz.

Any shotgun hunting here is only ever used specifically for feathered animals and the odd rabbit hunter using ferrets, and these specific styles of shotgun hunting would be very rare in any state on any game, and the use of shotgun has no set limitations as such in general hunting terms, IE using SG and such on feral pigs at close range, but to use one on deer as your only firearm would draw unwanted questions from the law if using shot smaller than 00 at close range.

Certainly different, the odd part is the states I see with these laws, illinois, Iowa, missouri, Nebraska, and Kansas, for some, so surely those and other states would have been prime hunting ground like when buffalo ran wild in the 1800's and the likes of a large cal sharps rifle was the stock rifle with these hunters, so if my basic history is good there seems to have been certain reasons to make such shotgun laws, and also very different from your other states.

If I was to go hunting at close ranges the compound bow might be dusted off for a challenge, allthough something that went bang might be added in the kit as more serious backup.

I find a 00 magnum to be an excellent language converter for those unwanted guests, or used in IPSC style in my Rem 1100, so I'm not completely new to shotguns as such.
 

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Iowa was shotgun only when i moved there in 2000 and may be still. I mentioned i would have to get some buckshot and was told it was slug only. They now claim it is shotgun only for safety. I wondered how slugs that bounce along like a cannonball are safer than buckshot. I am unsure but i think most shotgun only laws were passed when the deer population was very low and they needed to make you work for a deer rather than shoot it at long range.
 

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I grew up in the Southern Tier of New York State when only shotgun (slug) was allowed for whitetail hunting. Now Guys, I am a big Marlin fanatic and consistently take deer with my 444, 45-70, 356Win, 375Win, 35Rem and 30-30; however, I remember that a 12g slug at <100 yds just CLOBBERS 'em. Properly placed, it will destroy a 500+ lb black bear at 50 yds.....I know.

Safety of a 12G shotgun vs a rifle depends on a lot of variables.
 

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Iowa was shotgun only when i moved there in 2000 and may be still. I mentioned i would have to get some buckshot and was told it was slug only. They now claim it is shotgun only for safety. I wondered how slugs that bounce along like a cannonball are safer than buckshot. I am unsure but i think most shotgun only laws were passed when the deer population was very low and they needed to make you work for a deer rather than shoot it at long range.
Give Arky a special commendation for seeing through the rhetoric and identifying the original intent behind limiting hunting to shotgun slugs and other short-range regulations. What started out as a means to protect a limited, but growing herd, has metamorphosed into a "safety" issue.
 

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I'm from minnesota. our state is divided in half between rifle and shotgun. the southern half is shotgun only and the norhtern half is rifle (you can also still use a shotgun in the north zone). The reason that our DNR states is that rifle bullets carry farther and in the southern half of the state it is mostly plains and they don't want the rifle bullets traveling across to who knows where. (flat and farm houses every 80 acres or so).

As far as the killing power. a 1oz 12gauge shotgun has incredible stopping power! If faced with a charging bear I'd rather have my 12gauge with slugs over all but 1 of my rifles(300weatherby mag.) I am lucky enough to hunt in the very north of our state and the very south. I have harvested probley 90% of my deer with a shotgun from ranges of 10yards to 140. There are times up north if I'm going to a stand that offers shots inside of 100 yards I grab the shot gun over my rifles.
 

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Before I left the Peoples Republic of NY we used to have to use shotguns in Chenango county. But for the last few years the DEC has allowed the use of rifles in this and some of the other counties that were shotgun only. I do believe this was the result of a study of ricochets.
 
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