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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This was in reply to a Washington Post article in 2001- By Cindy Williams( TV Star of Happy Days) where she stated that our military personnel were over piad and didn't deserve a pay raise of 13%!! This young airman say's it all in my book.
I know I'm under paid for my position- what does a medium sized company CFO make now a days? Sure as heck not $38000 a year?:eek: Since I manage a over $47 millon dollar Budget for my squadron!!!:D :D

Subject: Fw: Military Pay


Subject: Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s)
coming

I think this Airman's response to the Washington Times should be printed in all newspapers across America. Especially now when the President is calling up more Reserves and National Guardsman. Get this response out to everyone you know. It's time the Jane Fondas & Sean Penns, and Cindy Williamses of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them. Noel Pritzl, 1st Vice President USDR Military pay article: On 12 Nov, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming servicemembers' way this year -- citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve.

A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this!

Dear Ms Williams:
I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest leave and earnings statement (LES), I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through Windows' Calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center (AFNCC), where I am part of the team responsible for the administration of a 5,000-host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year, nor does it pay less than this. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Also, you tout increases to Basic Allowance for Housing and Basic Allowance for Subsistence (housing and food allowances, respectively) as being a further boon to an already overcompensated force. Again, I'm curious as to where this money has gone, as BAH and BAS were both slashed 15% in the Hill AFB area effective in January 00.

Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you have NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off AFDC, WIC, and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN, I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."

As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the vast piles of cash the DOD has been giving them.
Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a DFP (Defensive Fire Position, the modern-day foxhole), shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your op-ed piece. But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it. You see, I am an American fighting man,

a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that wouldmake most people cringe.

We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies. And you, Ms Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve?

Rubbish!

A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC:D
 

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Yea, the military is so overpaid!!!!! :rolleyes:

Some how, I cannot beleive that someone could be that stupid, to say it publicly anyway, and I have certain doubts about the story, seems to me I heard somethng like this before.

Either way, been there, done it, got many "t" shirts (some white, most green).

There is no way anyone could even remotely think that and be in touch with reality.
 

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If there is one thing that is certain about some people in the US, it is that they hate the military. Especially when the military is being used for it's intended purpose. So it would stand to reason that they would oppose a pay raise for them. Money being used to increase the power and influence of our country can't be used to buy more votes for the domination of one political view.. It can't be thrown at the Dept of Education to ram socialist/environmentalist/feminist/homosexual propaganda at our children in the public schools. Idiotic? Yes. True? Probably.
 

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I sure hope God is listening to all this anti-American crap from the 'Hollywooders'. He has to be. Hopefully all the under paid military, police, fire, nurses, teachers, etc., will have an opened door invite to HEAVEN. All other rich, give-me that, give-me this, stars will be directed elsewhere. It's too bad the everyday working person doesn't have access to the media.
 

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Gunnut45/454:
This is an email that's been circulating some time.
The problem is, a DIFFERENT Cindy Williams wrote the editorial, not the actress!
After all, Cindy Williams is not an uncommon name.
Go to www.truthorfiction.com when you get things like this, to check their veracity.
This is what Truth Or Fiction has to say about this particular email:

Summary of eRumor
Cindy Williams, of the Laverne and Shirley show, has allegedly written an article for the Washington Times in which she lays out a highly technical criticism of planned pay raises for members of the military. The eRumor includes a response written by a member of the Air Force.

The Truth
This is a case of mistaken identity. The Cindy Williams who wrote the article is not the actress.
She is another Cindy Williams who, according to the description with the article, was a senior research fellow at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a former assistant director for national security in the Congressional Budget Office.
Her opinions about the military pay raises were published in the Washington Post (not the Washington Times) on January 12 of 2000. The article dealt with to what extent there was a gap in the wages of military personnel compared with civilians.

Please reply to everyone with the above so they also know and not perpetuate it.

And if you wish to talk of underpaid, talk about journalists. I was a newspaper reporter for 12 years. Average pay nationwide for newspaper reporters is $24,000 a year.
And most newspapers won't hire you until you have a 4-year degree. Some want the degree and years of experience --- so you can make even LESS than $24,000 a year!
I left journalism because, after beating my brains out for years, I was getting no better pay or better hours.
And a bunch of whiz kids fresh college, who had no sense of history or fair play, were willfully destroying what ethics remained.
I'm an old-school reporter, who believes in accuracy and discretion if it's called for.
Visit your local newspaper. You'll notice that most reporters are well under 40 and many are in their 20s. That's because by the time most reach 40, they are burned out and seeking other employment.
Now I work for Uncle Sam as a writer and photographer and make TWICE as much money as I ever did newspapering --- that sounds amazing but it's only because journalism pays so poorly.
Don't believe the image that Hollywood and TV provide of well-paid, glamorous reporters. It's not like that at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Gatofeo
True or not it does get put in the PRESS/NEWS to often to go unchallenged!!:mad:
So I'm supposed to feel sad for Reporters? That's pretty good pay for what they do! I have Airman no stripes that make half of that and they're getting shot at right now!!!
So do you want to swap places or take your 24 grand and run!!! My first year in I made $8000 after taxes!! But I worked on Multi-million dollar aircraft -was responsible for the safety of the aircrew-work on a very dangerous ejection sytem thta was know to kill you if you screwed up!! You made 24 grand sitting in front of a typewritter/computer? Still want to trade? I not whining, I love what I do wouldn't change it for the world -but I'm sick of the Liberal left always crying about the military-If you will not put the uniform on, you should be VERY Grateful for thoose who do!!!:D My father did (WWII), My brother did !!!(Vietnam), My Sister did-Post Vietnam- and now me (GULF War1&2 -Cold War and all those little battle's you've never heard about):D
 

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I think this hollywoody girl should give it the ultimate test and that would be to sign up [any service] preferably during war time, on the front lines wondering where the next bullet is going to come from or what the next toxin that will be dumped on you from the enemy and or friendly forces [agent orange- safe my arse-] and on top of that knowing that your doing all this to protect the freedom of some anti war protester that has coward written on thier forhead. Oh! I'm so sorry my little hollywoody type person, did I hurt your little feelings.
Bob
Nam 66,67,68,69
 

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Way to go guys. A big thumbs up. I also wore two uniforms, that of an airman in 1968 and a police officer for 25 years. Most of my dealings with the media were negative. The print media never gets ALL the facts right. The television reporters are always working against the clock. Get something FAST and get it on the air. And we all know how a producer or an editor can make any story sound the way they want it to sound. I've read stories in the paper the next morning and said, "that's not what happened". The pen or computer is a powerful tool. It can lead you down any road it chooses. Just look at the national media today. God speed to our military troops. USA-USA-USA
 

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I have to hurry and post this, since the Ferrarri garage just called and my 512 is ready. I've been stuck driving the Mercedes for the last week. (NOT) I am an E-6 in the US Army and I can tell you we are not overpaid. My taxable income for this year will be $32,000 gross will be $42,970. This includes a housing allowance for my wife, our three children and I. I presently am an Instructor in a rather complex electronics repair course. The civilian instructor I work with is a GS 11 whose pay must be between $42976 and $55873. The lower figure is the bottom step, not for someone with 14 years of expirience also locality pay is not considered, plus a bonus for working non-standard hours (we work from 5pm to 1am). I am not complaining, I know I can leave the military and make more money. I also know that I have a steady job and enough money to get by. When I retire, I can tack on $1500-2000 a month plus what I make in the civilian sector. Plus free medical for life.
Andy
 

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Gunnut45 ... in my 12 years of journalism, working on newspapers, I never made near $24,000. I was citing that as an average. And I made well below the average.
The job required far more than "sitting in front of a typewriter or computer."
That's a misconception. I attended hundreds of city council, school board and organization meetings, all of them in the evening AFTER a full day of work.
Journalism, if done right, is a hard, never-ending, thankless job. I'm glad I'm rid of it; while it made me a better writer it also robbed me of my younger years and left me cynical.
I added the information about jouranalism because, frankly, I'm weary of teachers, nurses, fire and police being promoted as underpaid.
Yes, they are. But there are others equally underpaid who also serve their community. Only the fire and police regularly put their lives on the line, however, and for that they deserve the best wages we can give them.

If news reports go unchallenged when mistakes are made or bias is displayed, then the reader has no one to blame but himself. Write a letter to the editor. Get others to do the same. Since leaving journalism I've written many, complaining about bias, suspect information or mistakes. Some letters weren't acknowledged, some were, and sometimes corrections were published.
Having been on the receiving end of complaints made to editors, I can tell you that any reporter who consistently makes mistakes will soon find his way down the road.
Bias is another problem. It's hard to prove at times, and editors pathologically refuse to admit it. But it exists; I know, I've seen it myself.
The problem is, few people take the time or trouble to point these problems to the editor.
Newspapers pay very close attention to what their communities are saying. The trouble is, most people gripe about their newspaper but never put it in print or complain to the editor.

Pooter/Shooter wrote, "Oh! I'm so sorry my little hollywoody type person, did I hurt your little feelings. (sic)"
So, you feel that a mistake made, that can ruin a person's career, should stand even though it is clearly a case of misidentification?
C'mon. All I pointed out was that this email is being circulated as a barb aimed at the actress Cindy Williams, who is innocent of writing the column.
What's wrong with setting the record straight?
Or don't you believe in accuracy in print, including on the internet?

A.J. - I can understand your observation that, "The print media never gets ALL the facts right."
I've been there. I've made mistakes (contrary to the opinion of this website, I'm human). But I always did my best to ensure that it was accurate.
But I know exactly what you mean. I worked alongside young, "whiz kids" or sloppy reporters who, if they didn't know something for fact, they guessed. Yep, it happens. And too often, I'm afraid.
It shouldn't be this way, and I spent 12 years railing against it. For this, I was passed over numerous promotions because my reporting was seen as dull. RARELY inaccurate, mind you, but dull.
I wish we could have worked together as cop and reporter. I knew many police officers when I covered the Cop Shop and I earned their respect because (1) I strove for accuracy, (2) If I made a mistake I owned up to it and ensured that a correction was printed and (3) I used my own discretion.
Frankly, I believe that the public has the right to know, but sometimes it doesn't have the NEED to know.
I mean, really, does the public NEED to know that the third-graders at P.S. 183 made paper hats for Thanksgiving?
And what was missed by assigning a photographer and reporter to this specious report.
Few people are more disgusted with the state of journalism today than myself. It's probably a good thing I'm no longer in it, I'd likely be charged with assault for slapping some reporters and editors upside the head!

I never said I was against raising the wages of servicemen and women. NEVER. I wish they were the highest-paid people in our society.
I work for the military, as a civilian, and meet soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen every day. I certainly don't take their service for granted.
As a veteran, I too know how little our military members are paid, and how underappreciated they are.
All I sought to do was set the record straight on an email travesty.
I was a U.S. Air Force Security Policeman from 1974 to 1979. And I knew responsibility for the lives of others too.
I proudly served my country for five years (I extended a year to take Panama over Guam) in the uniform of the U.S. Air Force.
I'm glad I served. My father served in the Army in World War II. My brother was an Army medic in Vietnam. My mother fought the Germans in the Belgian Resistance during World War II. My grandfather served in the Washington State Volunteers during the Spanish American War.
Don't even begin to presume that I think the military member is overpaid, or doesn't earn his or her pay.
 

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Gat,
I think you need to go BACK into journalism. Failing that, you could help me with my frangmented and run-on sentences. We're not even going to talk about improper punctuation.:)

I appreciate what you say. You seem to be an honest person. The unfortunate problem is that journalists and lawyers are in the same boat currently. They both seem to have sided with the filth (leftist) in this country that want to undermine everything this country is founded on. In this current situation, many of us have become skeptical of almost everything. We seemingly can't trust politicians, lawyers, and the press. I will attest to trusting little in any of those groups. I believe this is well founded. As a result of the abuses of the political, legal, and media system: almost every conservative, male or female, has become very cynical. I think it is widespread in the population in general.

I'm pretty sure that no one involved in this thread is calling your ethics or loyalties into question.

I appreciate your military service to this country. It is one thing that I should have done that I didn't. As opposed to the many things, in my youth, that I did and shouldn't have. I'm too young to be a hippie, so don't even try that one.:)
 

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Gentlemen,

I could use some help on fragmented sentences time and again, and spelling, which at times reaches critical mass. I just read a piece from A.J. saying the same thing, which is true.....spelling is not the forte' of the infantry, but we make up for it in a few rather imaginative ways of expressing ourselves. I have never been one to use a lot of "color" in my language, and it did take a bit of time to get used to...."Soldier, move the truck.......Move the @*!!^ truck......Move the @3*&@!!, $%*@((#&^@%&$ truck right now you.....%#^$&&[email protected]!!!!, before I sling your @%[email protected]*&#^^$%!!!!!"

The soldier then would innocently say, "oh, you want the truck moved.....why the heck didn;t so say so in the first place?"

Language arts, and journalistic support nonwithstanding, I think the pay issue is fairly relative, and not a huge concern to the majority of the soldiers in uniform. I have heard of soldiers that have live below the poverty line, and that bothers me, and more often than not these are young men with young families. That is farily bothersome, but it is not the majority.

The issue of folks popping off that do not understand this business, doesn't bother me in the least. Miss Williams can say I make too much money, if she is in that notion. All of the hollywood faction can talk and talk.....more power to them, they need to get on with the business of discrediting themselves, so we can have real role models again- like Hunters, cowboys, policemen, and veterans. Its more a soceital problem with the All volunteer military, in which we are "the" army, and not "our" army. But for me, I would serve for allot less money, as its the only thing that I have ever wanted to do.

In my case, the root pay issue is relative, perfomance of duty versus compensation, like jumping out an airplane. Some jumps are great weather, no wind, land like a feather....these are just fun.....and I end up feeling like i did not earn my Monthly Jump pay of $150. Other operations, riding around for serveral hours in a bumping about plane, most of the stick is sick and weak.....jump out to foul weather and a rock hard landing that causes the air to get knocked out of a fellow's chest, and stars circle the head for a few days......that is a well earned 150.

We may be overpaid, and overbenefited some of the time, but I reckon when I packed my stuff and left my family, had to explain to three crying kids why Dad was going, and not going to be around, that was money was pretty well earned. Its just too much to ask for folks that have no empathy to understand, and we can't think ill of them because they don't.

Makes us apprieatte each other just that much more.

God Bless.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Gatofeo
See that's where your wrong when I see a crappy article with nothing but half truths or blatant lies I always write the editor and tell him about the crap he and his paper are spewing!! Especially when it comes to the right of all Americans to own and carry firearms!!!:D I write and I right but never seem to get my Articles published in these rags- why? Becuase it's not news . All I see coming out of the press is Liberal hogg wash
, but when I see an acurrate piece on what ever subject I make it a point to write and say that as well.
Now back to the point I think for what you did you paid fairly! You may not like answer but there it is! Now put yourself in an young airman/soldiers shoes earn that much ,but your being shot at , bombs dropped on you ,gassed and people who want to kill you just becuase you ware our uniform- also they want to kill your family if your so lucky to have them stationed with you overseas. or they might want to send a bomb to your parents house-now see if that's enough? :eek:
 

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Hey guys, we're all on the same side here (relatively speaking), let's not have this turn into a big flaming argument.....
 

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Well, I've read the above posts and I have some comments as well. But, I'm not going down that road. However, I will say this. It appears real soon we will be at war. This one could be really ugly. I hope we ALL unite for the cause as AMERICANS. I'm not stupid not to know that some are for eliminating Hussein and others are in a 'lets wait and see what he does' mode. With all the current protests being aired on CNN, I'm sure Saddam and his groupies are in front of the television watching and cheering. Are we not the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Whether you are blue collar, white collar or bare foot, we have got to stick together.
 

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I dont think they are underpaid,but I dont see family's compalining when their loved ones are playing soldiers,but as soon as they are deployed,all the media hoopla starts with the crying and families saying goodbye.
when you enlist,this is a chance you take.
 

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You don't see "family's compalining when their loved ones are playing soldiers" (your words not mine) because ITS NOT NEWS. Yes, the life of a military family is about sacrifice, every day. I think I will stop there.
andy
 

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no disrespect intended,I just want to hear news about whats happening in the middle east,and every night for the last month all I see is the local news rehashing the obvious.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The purpose of this post was not to insite discord, but I was curious as to the feelings of this site on how they veiwed us in the military. Thanks for your replies!
On the eve of our troops/ my comrades in arms going into harms way I thank you again and say a prayer for those over in theater-"God Speed and may you all return soon in good health" America will be forever in your dept!!
 
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