[derhntr76]

I'm new at loading 223. Loading all other standard rifle calibers, no problem until I get to Lake City brass. It has a military crimp. I buy the RCBS crimp remover and stick in on my case prep center and grind away. Trying to work up some good loads using 68 gr BTHP Hornady bullets for one of my AR's. I figure 50 rounds should be a good start. Go to seat some primers and they won't go in and crushed/folded them. I quit after 9 pieces. What am I doing wrong? Maybe ought to just pitch the whole bucket and buy new. This stuff is worthless. Yes, frustrated.

 

[broom_jm]

I'm new at loading 223. Loading all other standard rifle calibers, no problem until I get to Lake City brass. It has a military crimp. I buy the RCBS crimp remover and stick in on my case prep center and grind away. Trying to work up some good loads using 68 gr BTHP Hornady bullets for one of my AR's. I figure 50 rounds should be a good start. Go to seat some primers and they won't go in and crushed/folded them. I quit after 9 pieces. What am I doing wrong? Maybe ought to just pitch the whole bucket and buy new. This stuff is worthless. Yes, frustrated.

Primer pocket swager?

 

[unclenick]

Something is incorrect about the way the swager is working. Sounds like it isn't going in all the way. I own the Dillon and its ram has a slight radius at the bottom that widens the mouth of the primer pocket just a little extra as it bottoms out. Assuming the RCBS has that, you want to be sure it went all the way home.

If you have some Lee sizing lube, use a Q-tip to put some inside each primer pocket or on the ram before swaging. That can help. The Lee product dries, so it won't bother the primers later, and it may help them slip in. If you use any other case lube for this, you will need to remove it later to prevent primer contamination.

If you have one of the hand primer pocket reamers, apply that to one of the swaged cases and see what it does? If it removes much material, the swage is inadequate. Also note that you sometimes need to run the swager a second time after the first reloading is fired because the brass a swager raises around the perimeter of the primer pocket partially flows back in when pressure slams the case head into the bolt face.

P.S., Mr. Broom, if you haven't guessed by now, the primer pocket swager uses a primer pocket-shaped ram to force the vestiges of a military crimp aside after decapping. The alternative is to cut them away with a primer pocket reamer or a primer pocket profile cutter, such as the accessory one for the Wilson trimmer. If you don't do this, there are varying degrees of difficultly seating a replacement primer.

 

[derhntr76]

Primer pocket swager?

Just did a google search and you are correct. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. That looks like it will do the trick!

 

[unclenick]

Ahh! Now I see. Mr. Broom wasn't asking what one was, but whether you had or needed one? Yes, the RCBS makes the less expensive alternative to the Dillon. I assumed that's what Derhntr76 meant he had? Now that I reread it is for the case prep center, I think maybe it was a primer pocket reamer? Not doing the job somehow. Odd.

 

[derhntr76]

Due to my ignorance, I have yet to purchase a reamer. Yet. I'm using the "military crimp remover" in my rotary case prep center. It's not getting it done obviously. I'm starting off learning to load this cartridge on a Redding turret press until I get comfortable then move to my Dillon. My own fault for jumping into this first without asking you guys. I should have known better. Not really looking for high volume capability yet. Just trying to perfect some longer range "what if" ammo.

 

[41 Mag]

While not working on the .223 cases at this time, I am working my way through several types of '06 surplus. I feel you pain.

When I was young my pop would go through the ritual of swedgeing, then chamfering the outer rim of the pocket, using the neck chamfering tool, or his pocket knife, to remove the burr or sharp edge caused by the crimp if necessary.

There are several types of tools nowadays to get this accomplished. I haven't used the reamer, but I have seen mentioned several times that you need to be careful using them as they can remove too much and leave you with a pocket that is too loose. The swedge as mentioned can also leave the pocket needing a second trip through, which I presume is why my pop used the added step when he processed them.

I have probably 1500 or so .223's that will need this same treatment so feel free to post up your finding on both how well the primers seat after the initial reaming and the after shooting them for the first time.

Good luck and I hope you have it sorted out.

 

[broom_jm]

Ahh! Now I see. Mr. Broom wasn't asking what one was, but whether you had or needed one? Yes, the RCBS makes the less expensive alternative to the Dillon. I assumed that's what Derhntr76 meant he had? Now that I reread it is for the case prep center, I think maybe it was a primer pocket reamer? Not doing the job somehow. Odd.

Yeah, what I read is that the OP had used a military crimp remover to get the old primers out, but still needed to use a primer pocket swager, to size them properly. I was sort of guessing at it, since I have no experience with using military surplus brass, but if the primer won't fit, it seemed to me he needed to use a tool to size the pocket.

 

[Marshal Kane]

. . . if you haven't guessed by now, the primer pocket swager uses a primer pocket-shaped ram to force the vestiges of a military crimp aside after decapping. The alternative is to cut them away with a primer pocket reamer or a primer pocket profile cutter, such as the accessory one for the Wilson trimmer. If you don't do this, there are varying degrees of difficultly seating a replacement primer.

IME, using the Lyman hand operated primer pocket reamer gave me some off-centered and crooked primer pockets working with Remington military .45 ACP brass. When the crimp was more on one side of the pocket than the other, the reamer entered the pocket at an angle. Once the reamer was removed I could see tool marks on one side of the pocket and not the other. While cosmetically unappealing, there were no problems with seating primers with the reamed brass other than having to occasionally shift the case around in the shell holder in order for the primer to find the pocket.

Since then, I've switched to the RCBS primer pocket swager which is used mounted on my single stage loading press. I don't encounter much military crimped primer pockets so the RCBS is adequate for my needs. The swager button has a radius at its' base which rolls back the crimped portion of the pocket. The button self-adjusts to the pocket and only needs to be adjusted to bottom in the pocket. No more off-centered or crooked primer pockets or brass shavings to contend with.

My suggestion would be to use a loading press mounted primer pocket swager if you have small quantities of military brass to swage. If you have large quantities or continuously need to swage, IMO, you would be better served with the Dillon swager which is bench mounted and has much better leverage. Just my dos centavos, YMMV.

 

[unclenick]

Unless he's going to do a lot, then the Dillon 600 may be a justified purchase? It's what I use, and man is it quick. With it bolted to my bench, I can usually make a rate of about about 2-3 seconds per case. It, too, has the radius at the base of its ram profiles.

The Wilson tool suffers none of the alignment issues, since it is used with the case in its holder in their trimmer. It does produce the most beautifully shiny smooth profiled primer pockets you've ever seen, but man, is it time consuming. Fine for doing a couple dozen of something, but if you want to crank through 1000, you won't find you have enough skin on your thumb and index finger to make it through without resorting to bandages.

 

[Marshal Kane]

Unless he's going to do a lot, then the Dillon 600 may be a justified purchase? . . .

Yes, that is exactly the swager that I would use for large quantities or continuous processing of crimped military primer pockets. Being bench mounted with a good size lever, the Dillon 600 wouldn't require an arm like Popeyes' to operate.

 

[Mush from PA.]

I use the L.E. Wilson tool:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=487924

And Primer Pocket "De-crimper" and IMHO it works better than the Hornady or Lee hand de-crimper:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=931834

I have not tried the RCBS. THe Wilson tool is a cutter that uniforms the primer pocket and bevels the sides at the top to allow the primer a easier push to go in the pocket.

 

[mtmrolla]

I use the RCBS swaging tool, #9495 mounted in my Rock chucker. I do 7.62, 5,56 and 9mm. I initially had troble because I assumed it would take a lot of effort and I ended up bending the swaging rod. A quick call to RCBS and the lady there took pity on me and sent me another as well as telling me that gentleness was the key to success. After my blood pressure went down (she sounded so sweet that solder coulda run down my arm from the phone) I followed her instructions and was immediately rewarded with decrimped brass. On the downward stroke of the ram there is a slight hesitation then then cartridge case pops out. I put a small amount of case lube on the swaging rod and now have no troubles at all. As she pointed out, success is all about gentle technique.

don't throw out your brass, it is fine, just swage those pockets. Btw..I initially started off reaming the pockets but stopped cause it was an unnecessary waste to energy and brass. The swaging die works much better.

 

[derhntr76]

Thanks for advice guys. I appreciate the expertise. Off and shopping for a swaging tool!!