Water base in my shiny unprotected barrel. Nope. The smokeless need a solvent and petrolium distillate protection. Maybe clean less often to limit your solvent use and shoot till accuracy suffers but if weather is damp and shooting speratic I would protect that barrel. Besides, I put hoppes on my corn flakes, no that was sprinkle Green Dot on my corn flakes, oh well.
Dumb Cleaning Question
OK, so it might not be a dumb question, but has anyone tried simple green as a bore cleaner? In the summer months I mostly practice with cast bullet loads. They don't lead at all, so all I need to do is clean out the powder fouling. I like to avoid solvents as much as possible and was wondering if anyone had tried this? Do you see any potential pitfalls?
IDShooter
IDShooter
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
If the barrels don't lead much, and you're in a low-humidity environment, you could probably get away with just running a wet patch of Hoppe's through the gun, and nothing else.
I agree with the issue of putting water-based products in a gun barrel, unless you are cleaning up after shooting corrosive products. The one exception would be something like Ballistol.
It's pretty rare that I actually go to the trouble of cleaning all the crud out of my revolvers. Wipe down, put up, take out and shoot again....
I agree with the issue of putting water-based products in a gun barrel, unless you are cleaning up after shooting corrosive products. The one exception would be something like Ballistol.
It's pretty rare that I actually go to the trouble of cleaning all the crud out of my revolvers. Wipe down, put up, take out and shoot again....
So then who makes the best solvent? I have a gunsmith friend that swears up and down by "Mercury (brand) outboard engine cleaner and degreaser". He refuses to use anything that is ammonia based. He also thinks that Stainless Steel barrels are weak and fracture prone. I don't know.
I use Hoppe's Benchrest bore solvent to knock the heavy stuff out after a session at the range. This is followed by MP7 and a good scrubbing with a bronze brush. That's followed by WipeOut until the bore shows no more copper, then finish up with Hoppe's #9 til there's no more trace of anything. A finish swab with an aromatic synthetic oil is allowed to air dry, then the outside wiped down with an old oiled hand cloth and put in the vault.
"Best" solvent - that's like asking who makes the best toothpaste, LOL. Too many brands and too many variables..... I bought a quart of Hoppe's a number of years back, so that's what I use and will continue to use until it runs out. At that point I'll have a decision to make.
Sweet's or my Foul-Out for bad copper fouling, Break-free for rust protection (NOT in the bore), and either leave the bore wet with Hoppe's or a light coat of plain gun oil for bore protection. And I do mean light, light enough that it won't change the point of impact on the first shot.
On the stainless issue, that's a very curious thing for your friend to say, normally stainless is actually softer (surface hardness) yet tougher (tensile strength) than a similar grade of chrome-moly or other gun steels. Stainless is harder to get a smooth surface on if machining, maybe if your friend has looked at stainless barrels through a bore scope the surface roughness leads him to believe it is cracking. I don't know, just speculation, however it actually sounds backwards to me. See if you can find out anything else.
I don't see any reason to not use ammonia-based solvents - there's little else that will dissolve copper fouling, except for the Foul-Out. I can pretty well guarantee his engine cleaner isn't going to attack copper fouling, if it did, you sure wouldn't want to use it on an engine! Some engine cleaners and such are good for carbon (powder) deposits though.
Sweet's or my Foul-Out for bad copper fouling, Break-free for rust protection (NOT in the bore), and either leave the bore wet with Hoppe's or a light coat of plain gun oil for bore protection. And I do mean light, light enough that it won't change the point of impact on the first shot.
On the stainless issue, that's a very curious thing for your friend to say, normally stainless is actually softer (surface hardness) yet tougher (tensile strength) than a similar grade of chrome-moly or other gun steels. Stainless is harder to get a smooth surface on if machining, maybe if your friend has looked at stainless barrels through a bore scope the surface roughness leads him to believe it is cracking. I don't know, just speculation, however it actually sounds backwards to me. See if you can find out anything else.
I don't see any reason to not use ammonia-based solvents - there's little else that will dissolve copper fouling, except for the Foul-Out. I can pretty well guarantee his engine cleaner isn't going to attack copper fouling, if it did, you sure wouldn't want to use it on an engine! Some engine cleaners and such are good for carbon (powder) deposits though.
Hi, Gents:
Stainless steel and some other steels have problems at very low temperatures. Some of the early equipment they had up on the Athabasca (Alberta) Oil Sands cracked to pieces when it hit 40° below. Note that Kreiger Barrels doesn't use stainless in the lighter contours. Of course Mike doesn't worry about 40° Below
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/product_info.php
Bye
Jack
Stainless steel and some other steels have problems at very low temperatures. Some of the early equipment they had up on the Athabasca (Alberta) Oil Sands cracked to pieces when it hit 40° below. Note that Kreiger Barrels doesn't use stainless in the lighter contours. Of course Mike doesn't worry about 40° Below
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/product_info.php
Bye
Jack
Not in Texas we don't!! Good one Jack.
I crack to pieces when it hits forty below, as well, so I don't worry too much about my stainless rifle!
Hi, ID:
The smokepolers like Simple Green but they oil the barrel right afterwards. Seems that it's a little too good and leaves the metal without any rust protection. I haven't seen it around here yet, too far north I guess. I use Hoppe's most of the time. I like Hoppes Benchrest for copper because I don't have to baby-sit the barrel like I did when I tried Sweet's. I leave Hoppes BR in over night and never have any rusting. Don't believe anyone who tells you that Sweet's won't rust barrels, and the first jugs didn't tell you not to leave it in too long.
I'm playing with FP-10 now and so far the results are positive. It even works in the flinter.
Bye
Jack
The smokepolers like Simple Green but they oil the barrel right afterwards. Seems that it's a little too good and leaves the metal without any rust protection. I haven't seen it around here yet, too far north I guess. I use Hoppe's most of the time. I like Hoppes Benchrest for copper because I don't have to baby-sit the barrel like I did when I tried Sweet's. I leave Hoppes BR in over night and never have any rusting. Don't believe anyone who tells you that Sweet's won't rust barrels, and the first jugs didn't tell you not to leave it in too long.
I'm playing with FP-10 now and so far the results are positive. It even works in the flinter.
Bye
Jack
For copper fouling, I really like the Barnes copper solvent (CR-10, I think it is). You're not supposed to leave it in the barrel long, either, but you don't have to! It quickly removes jacket and powder fouling.
I got the idea for Simple Green from some BPCR shooters at my range, I just didn't know if it was applicable to smokeless.
It sure works well degreasing engines, without strong solvents.
IDShooter
I got the idea for Simple Green from some BPCR shooters at my range, I just didn't know if it was applicable to smokeless.
It sure works well degreasing engines, without strong solvents.
IDShooter
If you can find or buy some Wipe-Out bore cleaner, you owe it to yourself to try it. A little pricey, but the results are great. It is injected into the barrel from a small can reseamling a shaving cream can and acts the same - it foams up and expands in the bore. I use a large soda straw with a tapered gromet on the end to act as a bore plug. You inject until it comes out the other end. A little messy the first time you attempt it, but you soon get the hang of using it. The stuff can be left in the barrel 24 to 36 hours without harm. In fact, the directions tell you to leave it as long as you can stand to do so. Very effective on removing copper wash and powder fouling. Takes me several times (3 days) to get the bores clean enough to be swabbed down with regular Hoppe's to assure everything is gone.
Used in conjunction with the inital brush scrubbing with the MP7, the bores are whistle clean!
Used in conjunction with the inital brush scrubbing with the MP7, the bores are whistle clean!
My friend did say that the barrels were prone to breakage at colder temperatures, but I wouldn't hunt at 20 below anyway. Animals don't move when it gets that cold. Thats alright I never liked the stainless barrel look anyway. I have been using Outers Bore Solvent for a while and it appears to work nicely, followed by a light coat of Outers gun oil. Haven't gotten around to trying Hoppes or the Mercury stuff but I don't like it anyway I think hes a little weird sometimes. I don't even take my guns to him.
MikeG;
Why no breakfree in the bore?
I've been lubing all my guns for years with breakfree, including the bores and have never had any issues in doing so.
First one I've heard say NOT to. It would be interesting to hear your reasons why and the potential problems of doing so. I have several handguns that have in excess of 25Kthrough them, all oiled with breakfree.
Thanks
Brownie
Why no breakfree in the bore?
I've been lubing all my guns for years with breakfree, including the bores and have never had any issues in doing so.
First one I've heard say NOT to. It would be interesting to hear your reasons why and the potential problems of doing so. I have several handguns that have in excess of 25Kthrough them, all oiled with breakfree.
Thanks
Brownie
I believe the reason mike doesn't want to use breakfree in the barrel is fear of it changing his Point of Impact on the first shot. A lot of people feel this way. Me personally, I love CLP. You won't find anything that protects better against rust, its a good lube, and actually it cleans pretty well too. (still will need something for the copper) I have started using either wipeout first or Hoppe's Benchrest first, and then finishing off with the breakfree. Useing the breakfree as a cleaner and then once the barrel is clean leaving a very light coat in the barrel. (just like my drill Sgt told me to) It does affect the first shot's POI. Here is what I figure on that one. If I do my part my first shot should be all I need on a game animal. If I have screwed up and have to take a second or third shot at the animal 1/2" to 1" max difference in POI isn't going to make that much difference. So, I sight my gun in to that first shot's POI with breakfree in the barrel. When I go to the range I realize that my first shot will be a little off from the group. I just like the assurance that the inside of my barrel is being protected by what I think is the best stuff on the market for rust prevention. YMMVbrownie0486 said:MikeG;
Why no breakfree in the bore?
I've been lubing all my guns for years with breakfree, including the bores and have never had any issues in doing so.
First one I've heard say NOT to. It would be interesting to hear your reasons why and the potential problems of doing so. I have several handguns that have in excess of 25Kthrough them, all oiled with breakfree.
Thanks
Brownie
-Matt
With rifle barrels, for extreme accuracy, at counter sniper school, we left a light coating of oil [ in my case clp ] in the bore after cleaning.
First shots were all the same poi as the follow ons. We sighted for the that first shot and the rest followed into the same hole at 100yds. [ a ragged hole, but still one hole, about .40 inches.
All my barrels are protected thusly whether they are rifles or pistols. Using a reddot sighting system in a 45 in comp for 5-6 years, the groups would make another ragged hole as well, following that first shot.
The counter sniper HK boys never mentioned making sure the barrel was dry for a first shot in the week I was there as well.
Like you, I would not leave my barrel bare after cleaning, just like my drill sgt's told me as well. Seems to have been very good advice in the last 36 to me.
If in fact that is the reason Mike mentioned not leaving clp in the bore, it's always been a non issue and I have never seen poi changes as suggested from first to last shot if I did my part.
I understand the idea behind it, just haven't seen the effects of that statement in my guns. To clarify, I leave a "light" coating in the bore, just enough to keep mother nature at bay, no more or less.
Robin Brown
First shots were all the same poi as the follow ons. We sighted for the that first shot and the rest followed into the same hole at 100yds. [ a ragged hole, but still one hole, about .40 inches.
All my barrels are protected thusly whether they are rifles or pistols. Using a reddot sighting system in a 45 in comp for 5-6 years, the groups would make another ragged hole as well, following that first shot.
The counter sniper HK boys never mentioned making sure the barrel was dry for a first shot in the week I was there as well.
Like you, I would not leave my barrel bare after cleaning, just like my drill sgt's told me as well. Seems to have been very good advice in the last 36 to me.
If in fact that is the reason Mike mentioned not leaving clp in the bore, it's always been a non issue and I have never seen poi changes as suggested from first to last shot if I did my part.
I understand the idea behind it, just haven't seen the effects of that statement in my guns. To clarify, I leave a "light" coating in the bore, just enough to keep mother nature at bay, no more or less.
Robin Brown
If it works, I would not worry about it, but I've seen some squirrely first shots out of a bore oiled with some of the teflon-based lubricants.brownie0486 said:MikeG;
Why no breakfree in the bore?
I've been lubing all my guns for years with breakfree, including the bores and have never had any issues in doing so.
First one I've heard say NOT to. It would be interesting to hear your reasons why and the potential problems of doing so. I have several handguns that have in excess of 25Kthrough them, all oiled with breakfree.
Thanks
Brownie
Hi Mike,
I think the trick is to leave a little film but not so it looks wet.
I would agree that if one oiled the barrel wet it should be swabbed out before shooting.
My barrels have ever so slight a coating, you only need enough to keep a barrier between the air and barrel.
I've left barrels real wet when putting them away for long term storage, when they come out to shoot they get a patch down the bore before firing.
It's a good heads up nevertheless to warn people not to overdo it with the oil, and if they have that tendancy, then to not oil the barrel after cleaning. I agree a wet bore will affect accuracy and poi as you mention you have seen.
Robin Brown
I think the trick is to leave a little film but not so it looks wet.
I would agree that if one oiled the barrel wet it should be swabbed out before shooting.
My barrels have ever so slight a coating, you only need enough to keep a barrier between the air and barrel.
I've left barrels real wet when putting them away for long term storage, when they come out to shoot they get a patch down the bore before firing.
It's a good heads up nevertheless to warn people not to overdo it with the oil, and if they have that tendancy, then to not oil the barrel after cleaning. I agree a wet bore will affect accuracy and poi as you mention you have seen.
Robin Brown
On a tip from one of these borads, tried Simple Green diluted (10:1) with water in my ultra sonic cleaner...wroks like a champ. Same solution (or a stronger 5:1) works fine on black powder fouling.
Don't belive it would offer a bore much rust protection...would be pretty good as stripping out powder and lube fouling, but wouldn't do much for leading or jacket fouling.
Are several enviro-friendly gun cleaners...Hoppe's Elete is one....that will clean a bore with light fouling. These eco-kind cleaners are NOT as good/fast as the harsher chemicals and do not do as good a job on heavy fouling deposits. They also do not offer as much rust protection...but they do do a good job if you stay on top of the fouling problem and do not let it accumulate.
Think we'll have to eventually get use to these non-toxic, biodegradeable cleaners.
Don't belive it would offer a bore much rust protection...would be pretty good as stripping out powder and lube fouling, but wouldn't do much for leading or jacket fouling.
Are several enviro-friendly gun cleaners...Hoppe's Elete is one....that will clean a bore with light fouling. These eco-kind cleaners are NOT as good/fast as the harsher chemicals and do not do as good a job on heavy fouling deposits. They also do not offer as much rust protection...but they do do a good job if you stay on top of the fouling problem and do not let it accumulate.
Think we'll have to eventually get use to these non-toxic, biodegradeable cleaners.
If you use a Hoppes copper solvent for copper inthe bore, make sure you do not leave it there more than 3-5 minutes, and certainly not overnight or longer.
You can nuetralize the copper solvent by simply using Hoppes #9 solvent behind it.
If we are to be relegated to biodegradables, I'll buy a case of copper remover and not look back.
Hope that doesn't happen but you may be right on the money there.
Brownie
You can nuetralize the copper solvent by simply using Hoppes #9 solvent behind it.
If we are to be relegated to biodegradables, I'll buy a case of copper remover and not look back.
Hope that doesn't happen but you may be right on the money there.
Brownie
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