Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 64 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,314 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Howa? Tikka? Hawkeye (M77). How good are these economically priced rifles? If anyone here has experience with any of these (good and bad) I would like to hear about it. I am looking for a 338 Win Mag...each of these brands comes in this caliber, but I am hesitant....accuracy is important (of course), but, I am looking for a "hunting" rifle, and dependablility and ruggedness is just as important. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks! FT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
I think these are not economically priced guns .To many that trem refers to entre rifles like the Savage stevens/ edge / Marlin X series or Mossberg
They all are good ,dependable but if your used to firearms twice or three times the price , then they are probably not for you .
Out of the three rifles you list , you probably start a poll as to each one's preferance, like the Chev Vs Ford thing . Each rifle has their own quirks so to speak , in that you might want to tune triggers or add recoil pads to the lighter rifles .( T3 would recoil in 338 Wm, but triggers are great )Any lightweight rifle is indeed going to recoil more than a unit in the eight pound range .
The Ruger probably need some trigger tuning as well as the Brownings and the Remingtons .
It seems to be the normal trend , to purchase a firearm , then fine tune the unit to fit your needs and wants , just as you would with a 1911 pistol.
So try them all for fit and work the actions , because they need first to fit you the new owner , not what would be my own preferance .You will hear a lot of that .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,853 Posts
All three you've mentioned are fine rifles. The Howa is a twin to the Weatherby Vanguard line. I've owned two Tikkas, one a T3 in .300WSM and it was an excellent shooter. I own all three versions of the M77 from the older tang model to the new Hawkeye. All versions are good solid rifles IMO. I own two SS Hawkeyes and they both have good triggers and shoot very well. Handle all three and see if one feels better in hand. I don't think there's a loser among them. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
Tikka, Vanguard and Howa are all very good and a step above the Ruger IMO. The Tikka has the edge in trigger, smoothness of action and accuracy, not that the Vanguard and Howa are not accurate. In .338 WM the recoil would probably be less with the Vanguard and Howa because of their added weight. I presently own a Tikka T3 Hunter and have owned a Vanguard. You should handle all that you're interested in to see which fits you best. Good luck with your choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Get the Ruger and just replace the trigger. The new LC6 triggers are crap, but other than that they are very accurate, especially the magnums, and you cant find a more rugged rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,918 Posts
Get the Ruger and just replace the trigger. The new LC6 triggers are crap, but other than that they are very accurate, especially the magnums, and you cant find a more rugged rifle.
I just sold my Ruger Model 77 Ultra Light Hawkeye in .308. Couldn't get it to shoot accurately with any load, factory or with my handloads. Now the other Ruger Hawkeye M-77's should be okay but just don't buy the "Ultralight" version. Buy their standard weight model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
I have a Howa 1500 in .308 with the Hogue stock. It is outstanding in all respects for around $450. I don't think the Hawkeye qualifies as an economy rifle. I bought one in 7 Mag for a friend and it seemed like a nice gun. As for true economy rifles, I have an Savage Edge and Savage/Stevens 200. The Stevens is outstanding. The Edge has been a challenge and the jury is still out on it. I think I will get it shooting well soon, but if I had to do it over, I would go another direction. Still, the two guns combined cost me $470 and one drives tacks, so I can't really complain.
 

·
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
Joined
·
24,137 Posts
Davers - Strangely, I had the same non-accuracy problem with a recent Remington Model 7 in .308 Win. Got rid of it also, because it wouldn't respond to factory or handloads worth a hoot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
That's the same issue the Edge is displaying. I am still thinking it will come around, but it certainly isn't an out of the box shooter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,918 Posts
Davers - Strangely, I had the same non-accuracy problem with a recent Remington Model 7 in .308 Win. Got rid of it also, because it wouldn't respond to factory or handloads worth a hoot.
I'd just like to know if these companies are buying their steel, for their barrels, from China. I heard that steel from China is not very good at all.:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Ever wonder where China is getting the ore ? Probably from us .

Think there is some one who has had a bad experiance with any rifle made . That doesn't mean it was because it was made in China . Japan was once noted for cheap products , but actually their rifles seem to be of fine workmanship as are the German and from the Fins .
Some American Made , seem to be slipping .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
The Edge is surprising me a little. Maybe Savage has finally lost its touch on squeezing acceptable field quality and MOA accuracy out of even cheap platforms. A few too many cost cutting measures somewhere in the manufacturing process I imagine. The jury is still out on the barrel, as not enough breaking in and load variations have been tried yet to know for sure. However, the bases would not align (both horizontially and vertically) without jumping through hoops. This is a sure sign IMO of poor quality control at the plant and something I have never seen on previous Savages / Stevens. By comparison the Japanese made Howa I bought recently has outstanding fit and finish and is a shooter. A great gun in all respects at a good price.

We all tout wanting "american made", but then you see this stark difference, it is tough. Add how Remington's rep has taken several steps back in the last decade, Rugers being tough but just flat cumbersome and inconsistently accurate, the best Brownings now made in Japan, Marlin only servicing the entry bolt market; that leaves TC, Savage and hopefully the S.C. FN Model 70s to carry the torch and revive the US made bolt action market. I have no faith that Remington will improve much with their current management and I am disappointed with Savage's latest spawn. I sure am rooting for the good folks in South Carolina to get it right with the Model 70.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
Actually, for few years now, china has been importing steel like crazy. Now they may be using it to manufacture rifle barrels and selling it back to us in that form...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
IMO, you can buy a brand new model 70 sporter for $700 or a little less, so why bother with what you're calling an 'economically priced' gun. after all, a good M70 will probably be your friend for life.
i'm far from rich and i consider that economical
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,290 Posts
The Savage Edge may not be impressive, but their standard, "full-price" offerings are still the best out-of-the-box accuracy being offered, today. Also, you can call the Marlin "X" guns an entry-level offering, but absolutely everything I've heard about them suggests they will one day be what we all consider a mainstream bolt-action rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Harder to go wrong

In my youth, (1960's) one had to be a wise shopper. To find/buy quality was a journey, and one was probably going to pay top dollar. Todays producers must meet the desires of a more educated, expecting shopper. In the past it was more difficult to buy quality items; today it's harder to buy crap. With the internet reviews of products/retailers the buyers have almost instantaneous feedback. Thus, the bar has definitely been raised. Firearms have not been exempt from this gauntlet of quality control. Most of what's on the market today is of acceptable quality. When you speak of budget/inexpensive firearms the weatherby vanguard/Howa pops to mind. Ruger, although they've been increasing in price over the years, has always been a strong voice in economically priced firearms. Savage, has made a strong play in the low priced firearms, although I have to frown on their recent use of plastics, (shame on you Savage). Most of the major manufactures produce a base level, low priced rifle that is usually more than adequate for hunting. When I think about it in the course of a couple hundred years going from smooth bore black powder rifles to what we have now, things are good.
Handloading opens the door to accuracy. It's gotten better with factory load standards, where gun/ammo manufactures are trying to work together for accuracy. However, each gun is a enigma to itself, and handloading is key to unlock the door of potential for that firearm.
Anyway, taking the long way around the barn here, IMO the best gun is the one you have, or can afford. The challenge is making the most out of that gun, realizing it's full accuracy. Most guns shoot better than their shooters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,918 Posts
Actually, for few years now, china has been importing steel like crazy. Now they may be using it to manufacture rifle barrels and selling it back to us in that form...
You are most likely right on your post, Sandman1. It seems that when we became "Trading Partners" with Red China, our products have gone down hill in quality. Nothing seems to last as long anymore. I can take a Rifle, FULLY MADE in USA which is over 30 years old and it still is very accurate and well made. Take the same model of rifle built today and it feels "Cheap", has no open sights, The bedding is poor, and it doesn't shoot accurately at all. I am at the point now that I am very reluctant to purchase ANY new rifle except one made before 1970.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,918 Posts
In my youth, (1960's) one had to be a wise shopper. To find/buy quality was a journey, and one was probably going to pay top dollar. Todays producers must meet the desires of a more educated, expecting shopper. In the past it was more difficult to buy quality items; today it's harder to buy crap.
I disagree! Firearms made 30 years ago are better than the ones they are turning out today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,290 Posts
I disagree! Firearms made 30 years ago are better than the ones they are turning out today.
Dave, I think you're taking a stance on the quality of new firearms based on one or two inexpensive guns that haven't met with your approval? By and large, the quality of materials, workmanship, design and function are all exceptional in today's firearms, especially when you consider they are asked to fire cartridges that are quite a bit more powerful than most of the older rounds. Look at cartridges like the 454 Casull and the WSM lineup. 100 years ago this type of power in a pistol, or short-action cartridge, was inconceivable. 30 years ago (1980) the Winchester Model 70 was nowhere near as well-made as the product being turned out today. The Remington Model 700 might have been better, but that's just one gun.

Consider the stuff from Marlin: The 308 and 338MX cartridges take traditional lever-action performance to a new level, partly because of great innovations in the FTX bullet and Leverevolution powder. Thirty years ago, Marlin didn't make a bolt-action of any consequence and now they make probably the best Economy Bolt Gun on the market.

Don't let crappy accuracy from one whimpy-barreled gun sour you...the vast majority of guns being made and sold today are of better average quality than we've ever enjoyed before. Heck, MOA isn't a pie-in-the-sky dream anymore, it's become a standard that n00bs don't even really appreciate.
 
1 - 20 of 64 Posts
Top