Shooters Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For those mixing and using either the original Ed's Red or a modified version....Dexron III is replacing Dexron II on many dealer's stock. I needed to mix up more of my version of Ed's Red and Cissey picked up a new bottle of Dexron. After putting together my mix I noticed it would not go into solution! The various components would separate into layers! I checked the bottle and found it was Dexron III....I called a transmission outfit and got the answer...Dexron III is a synthetic! They told me it was designed for the newer autos?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo--> You can still find Dexron II if you look for it, but don't use the new Dexron III...it will not mix.
My solution is...2 parts Dexron II, 1 part Acetone, and 1 part high grade kero lamp oil. This mix seems more aggressive and leaves a nice waxy(sp) film. The one thing I have found though...after using it and even wiping the bore as dry as I could..the first one to three rounds go high. More so with cast than jacketed?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->? So..I make it a habit not to go after hogs or lizards with a clean bore..a couple of fouling shoots work! During the break in of the Marlin 1894P's barrel.. I cleaned after each ten rounds. Now the barrel has had about 300 rounds run through it and I just dry brush or use the copper mesh for around 25+ rounds or so.
Best Regards, James
PS..PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH DEXRON III>>>THANKS
(Edited by James Gates at 8:33 am on May 8, 2001)


(Edited by James Gates at 2:16 pm on May 9, 2001)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I have used Ed's Red for some years based on the original formula of equal parts ATF, acetone, kerosene and turpentine. I have always used Dexron III (Mobil)without problems.

I suspect that your problem of first rounds out of group are due to the kero "lamp oil" that you use rather than the ATF.  There seem to be a lot of different grades of substances labelled kerosene and the heavier grades leave a waxy residue as you report. I doubt that this is actually protective to the bore, anyway thats the function of the ATF in the formula.

My Ed's Red shoots very close to POI for the first shot.

I have used both gum (natural) turpentine and mineral turpentine and found no difference except the former costs more and smells better.

I have some fully synthetic Mobil ATF Dexron III, a much more expensive ATF somewhere in the garage and this weekend I will make up a small batch with this to see if I can duplicate your problem of separation into layers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
DrJoe...I'm more confused than ever....I found a bottle of #2 and mixed a small amount ( equal parts) with acetone in a glass tube, It separated into layers like the #3 did??? I'll stay away from the lamp oil, but my original batch did not separate into layers...any ideas?
Best Regards, James
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
G'day James,

I mixed up two batches with equal parts ATF, acetone, kerosene and turpentine (as per original formula) using fully synthetic Dexron II and then fully synthetic Dexron III. No problems with either batch.

Then I saw your post and tried ATF and acetone. Sure enough they don't mix.....until you add turpentine and/or kerosene in adequate quantities!.

I suspect that your problem was twofold. Firstly the "kerosene" you were using and secondly the ratio of ATF to the other ingredients. Most people who have used a modified Ed's Red leave out the acetone and therefore don't have this problem of separation.

I'd suggest just adding some turpentine to your mix (if you want to salvage it) and see what happens.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
DrJoe....Thank you for the information. I'll get out to the barn and run another "batch", Ed's Red that is. I dumped a stick on jewelers Rouge in a half quart of acetone/dex III..it disolved the stick and now I have a new barrel conditioner????? Works great on patches? You have to shake it up, but seems better than JB.
Best Regards, James
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Thought this might be of interest.  I just found what I think is the most recent update to Ed's Red.  It's by C.E., Ed Harris, the inventor himself, updated & revised 9-29-95.

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS FOR "ER" BORE CLEANER:

Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will eventually evaporate. The acetone in ER will also attack HDPE, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger
container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved.

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for optional use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix.

LABEL AND NECESSARY SAFETY WARNINGS:

RIFLE BORE CLEANER CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTURE
HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

1. Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.

2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.

3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING "Ed's Red (ER)" Bore Cleaner:

1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.

2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.

3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.

4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average conditions.

5. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage I recommend use of Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.

6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes).

7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described.

8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy
fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out.

God bless,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
G'day Southpaw,

My brew is based on that formula as posted by the originator. Mineral spirits are usually called mineral turpentine here in Australia. The original formula called for (spirits of) gum turpentine, a natural product not petroleum based. Ed Harris substituted mineral spirits (mineral turpentine/ painters naptha etc) because of cost and availability. He also made a reference to extreme flammability but the most flammable part of the formula is the acetone which easily has the lowest flash point of any of the ingredients.

I also think he made a mistake with the containers. I have had no problem with HDPE over the years, on the other hand PVC dissolves in a matter of weeks.
Dr. Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
DrJoe, thanks.  I actually found several of Ed's previous versions of his posting for his formula.  In an earlier one, using HDPE was one of the storage options.  When I saw the caution in the more recent one, I thought I would post it.  Glad to know you haven't had any problems.  On the other hand, you know, maybe it just doesn't get hot enough 'down under' for stuff to evaporate... (smile).

God bless,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Hi all -

Does ER remove copper & lead fouling?
I'm no chemist, but I thought ammonia was needed to remove copper.

Thanks for input.

Regards,
 

·
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
Joined
·
23,959 Posts
Ed's Red will remove carbon fouling, and to a degree, some lead deposits. It will do nothing for copper fouling.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top