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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wondered if anybody on here has experience with Lyman 358156 mold? The question I want to ask is, could you cast a HP from pure lead with a gas check, and it not give you much leading. Won't be loaded really fast. Maybe 1,400 from a rifle and about 1,000 from a revolver. Was trying to get a good expanding, hunting bullet. Thanks
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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No, pure lead with a gas check will lead like no tomorrow. Way too soft. I tried it with 4 grains of Bullseye (Lyman's 43rd) at 950 fps. Dad's Security Six and I got really well aquatinted while I was scrubbing it out. You want #2 alloy minimum.

RJ
 
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Mix your pure lead 50/50 with clip on wheelweight and drop them in water from the mold. That will give you good expansion without leading your gun into a 32 caliber tube. Lots of deer have been killed with that alloy both with and without the hollowpoint.

FWIW, If you do the above and then powdercoat the bullets and re drop them into water hot out of the oven (instead of filling the grooves with goop) you can drive them as fast as your 357's will allow with zero worries and even better accuracy. A cool whip tub and some powdercoat paint along with a goodwill toaster oven is all you need to do this. I kept my Lee push through type bullet sizers and sold all but one of the greasy wax injection lubers once I found powdercoat, it was a real epic level game changer.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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@ThreeFiveSeven

Powder coating is akin to blasphemy or worse.

JUST KIDDING!!!

On a serious note, a couple questions:

1. Do you get any plastic fouling when you run your cast and coated bullets really hot?

2. What's the cost difference between "goop" 😍 and "lipstick" 😁

Not that I'm going to switch or anything, it's just something I'm curious about.

RJ
 
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@recoil junky

I run PC'ed RCBS/LEE 55grain 223's at over 3K fps zero fouling from the plastic. I pc over the gas check so there is no copper fouling either. ;) A 357MAG cannot even begin to stress a good TCIG powder coat. I have over 2,800 pc'ed gaschercked 55 grain bullets through my range toy 223 and it has not seen a brush/swab/patch since I switched to pc. With pc alloy is far less critical also. It truly is a win/win thing. You can use softer alloys for hunting and whatever mid/hard range scrap for steel plate banging/target shooting, alloy does not matter near as much as it once did. Powder Coat was truly a game changer. I only have one gun left that is eating jacketed bullets in fact. I have a huge stash of bullets for the 270 so I never bought a mold I guess.

Price difference? PC is definitely cheaper, and IMO much better. :devilish: Priced beeswax lately? A pound of decent powder coat is only a few bucks more than the ONE main ingredient (bwax) in groove filling "goo", and PC is the only ingredient, nothing else has to be bought and mixed, heated, stirred. Not to mention you can skip the whole hocus pocus of bullet lube making rabbit hole. Commercial lube stick route is likely 10X the price of using powdercoat. That is a guess as I always made my own lube. I refused to pay what they wanted for them little sticks. If you factor in the lubrisizer and dies compared to cheap Lee push through dies PC is ridiculously cheap to do. PC does take a bit more time though if you are like me and insist on standing every one up for baking. Some folks don't stand them up, but that would violate my ocd nature.
 

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Do have a 358156 mold...not hollow pointed, but they did offer that at one time.

Older mold...found the lube grooves mighty small and I'm not a big gascheck fan. Looking at it right now, it might be a Lyman "oops", as none of the other molds have such shallow/narrow lube grooves.

With regular lube in revolvers with typical "scrap lead" alloy (more like wheel weight alloy)..still got leading that started at the muzzle and grew back....pretty good sign of lube starvation....would have been worse in a rifle length barrel. Alox type tumble lube did help that...but even with the gas check, didn't cure it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys. The reason I asked about pure lead gas checked, is I think it's Buffalo Bore that makes a .38 load with a lead gas checked bullet, that's loaded like a .38-44 "classic" load. I've heard Buffalo Bore's is pure lead. Maybe not though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Do have a 358156 mold...not hollow pointed, but they did offer that at one time.

Older mold...found the lube grooves mighty small and I'm not a big gascheck fan. Looking at it right now, it might be a Lyman "oops", as none of the other molds have such shallow/narrow lube grooves.

With regular lube in revolvers with typical "scrap lead" alloy (more like wheel weight alloy)..still got leading that started at the muzzle and grew back....pretty good sign of lube starvation....would have been worse in a rifle length barrel. Alox type tumble lube did help that...but even with the gas check, didn't cure it.
Yep, the mold I have is pretty old. It's a HP or solid. And a single cavity.
 

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O(ne way to look at leading is: "just how many people do you need to shoot in a given afternoon?....maybe think about moving?".
 

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People that own their own backyard range and a small ammo "factory" in their house tend to shoot alot and not at people. Your thought train puzzles me there Ribbenstone2. :oops:
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Most people don't cast HPs for high volume shooting..... too much trouble.

If you shoot more than a handful in a year, for either self-defense or hunting.... then maybe you've moved to "professional" vs. "amateur" status ;)
 

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Pure lead bullets fired at magnum velocities can actually cause pressure spikes ... you have the cylinder throats , barrel gap and forcing cone all to deal with before it even gets into the barrel and the soft lead can actually expand too much in these places ... call it too much upset of the bullet . Elmer Keith warns of soft lead bullets in Magnum loads and recommends 1 part tin to be added to 15 parts lead ... in his book "Sixgun Cartridges & Loads" .
Another good mix is 50/50 Clip on wheel weight /soft lead ... also good for hollow points .
This alloy does just fine air cooled ... I think water dropping makes the HP brittle , air cooled gives a classic mushroom on impact .
Gary
 

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Just thinking in terms of self defence/revolver shooting. If it leads up past accuracy by shot #10 or #12...I've missed, reloaded, and missed again.

A bit like that will black powder rifle hunting....it's going to foul up....plenty of shots to hunt with before that happens, it's really only a range shooting problem.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Tin doesn't harden lead, it helps with mould fill, antimony hardens lead. Too much antimony makes lead brittle which is worse than pure lead for leading barrels. Lesson #2 with Dad's Security Six.

RJ
 
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I have that mold, and have had good results with enriched WW, in revolvers. Just a little tin added, to help fill out the mold a little better. 15 gr H-110. No leading whatsoever. A properly fitted bullet and the gas check goes a long way towards a clean barrel.
 

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I have the NOE clone of the Lyman 358156 and it's a excellent HP bullet in 38/357 Mag. The double crimp groove is especially useful for loading 38 Special case long so decrease bullet jump in 357 mag revolvers and you can load those case a bit warmer than 38+P if you so choose. The photo below was take before I started powder coating, the bullet on the Left uses traditional lube and a gas check for 357 Mag. the bullet on the Right was loaded at 38+P velocity for a S & W 642 tumble lubed with the gas check left off.

100_1006.JPG

user8723_pic3495_1298781070.jpg

Skeeters Bullet Skeeter
 

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Thanks guys. The reason I asked about pure lead gas checked, is I think it's Buffalo Bore that makes a .38 load with a lead gas checked bullet, that's loaded like a .38-44 "classic" load. I've heard Buffalo Bore's is pure lead. Maybe not though.
A better choice would be to alloy your pure lead with 50-50 bar solder (half n half lead/tin) The tin lowers the surface tension of the melt and makes the mold produce a better quality bullet. It also hardens it enough to prevent leading at the velocities you mentioned. I alloy to a 16 to 1 mix (16 parts lead- 1 part tin)
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Tin makes lead more "ductile" which means that maybe while making it "harder" it also makes it "bend" easier or less likely to come from together on impact with something. Tin also makes lead stick to copper better in those bonded bullets.

So, yeah, I suppose tin makes lead "harder" but it's a wash as it takes so much more tin to get just one number bnh than using antimony.

RJ
 
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Tin makes lead more "ductile" which means that maybe while making it "harder" it also makes it "bend" easier or less likely to come from together on impact with something. Tin also makes lead stick to copper better in those bonded bullets.

So, yeah, I suppose tin makes lead "harder" but it's a wash as it takes so much more tin to get just one number bnh than using antimony.

RJ
All he needs to add is Tin to get what he needs. I shoot 16 to 1 alloy in a 45/70 and 38/55 and have zero leading problems at the speeds he's loading to.
 
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