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Discussion Starter #1
My and one of my coworkers whent to the range today and we where shooting steel sihouettes and other things cut from steel targets at 100 yards. With are rifles whe where dinging the crud out of them and knocking over these steel pipe things people settup and shoot. We decided to use our .40 cal duty issued handguns. Off hand we could not even get close, so we got down on a rest behind a bench after 3 or 4 rounds I figgured out i needed to aim way high on the sihouette to hit it. I kinda started off aiming center of mass then worked my way up. I was perty much aiming at the top couple of inches directly below the head and I started hitting it. Im not sure If i was hitting it realy low but it was dinging. The Sihouettes are perty thick and the handgun rounds do not make it react other than the sound. So I am not sure where i was hitting it. However I was able to hit it on the average about 1 out of every 3 rounds after a while i got it down to probably 3 out of 5 but i was not paying that much attention to my hit ratio I was just focusing on hitting it. My coworker got frustrated and could not hit it at all so he switched to is AR and lit it up then came back to the handgun and was hitting it about like I was. So I got to thinking, these fixed "combat" sights on most non target semi auto hanguns where are they zeroed. I know they are not perfict but is there a general zero for them? Ive found most of them to be point of aim out to about 25 yards but ive never realy shot them much further till today. Also would you say with the average .40cal semi auto not a target pistol but a working gun. From a rest is 3 out of 5 a good hit ratio. Or do I need to work on that? Not that id realy shoot my pistol at 100 yards at somebody but you never know. Id most likely run and try to get my rifle at that distance.
 

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Unless your adversary is just going to stand there for you while you attempt to hit him with a pistol at 100 yards I don't think I would put much thought into this. If you have a rifle at your disposal use it and if not take cover and let him get closer. As to the zero of pistols. Most are going to be sighted for 25 yards.
 

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Never shot the .40s any further then 10 yds but do shot my M9 Beretta out to 100yds all the time. My point of aim is just a few inches higher on a 8x10" target. It takes practice and I was working on my hold over for 300m with the 9x19. You never know when, where and how you'll need to shoot. I'm in bad guy country so you have to be prepared.

CD
 

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Most of the service pistols in 9mm, .40 and .45 that I have seen or used print at point of aim or slightly low at 25 yards. By point of aim, I mean that the bullet will strike at the top of the front sight at that range. Many of us used to sight our revolvers in for a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards on a standard Bullseye target, which would put the bullet about 2" over the top of the front sight at 25 yards.

Because the revolvers are usually sighted to print a bit higher than the autos are, they will seem to shoot flatter at 100 yards because you do not have to aim so high to make hits.

The easiest way to make long range hits with any handgun is to change your sight picture by simply holding the front sight a bit higher than the rear sight and then placing the target on top of the front sight. The more front sight you hold up above the rear sight notch, the farther away you can hit. If you practice a bit, you can determine how much front sight to hold up to hit at 100 yds. or any other range. Then you can just perch the target on top of the front sight while holding it above the rear sight and clang steel pretty often at long range. It's easier than keeping the standard sight picture and trying to aim over the target, because your sight picture blots out the target and you can't do it the same way every time.

With my old .357 service revolver, I could hit a man-sized target at 200 yards pretty regularly by holding the bottom of the red insert on the front sight even with the top of the rear sight.

Of course a rifle is much better at long range, but you are far from helpless at 100 yards or more with a handgun if you know how to use it.
 

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To be honest, if I have to use a handgun at 100 yards I hope it is a .357 magnum. Even a 9mm shoots MUCH flatter than a .40 or .45.

But, not being a law enforcement officer, there will likely never be a circumstance where I will HAVE to shoot at 100 yards in. If it comes to that, I have a rifle in the truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I agree if im in a gunfight at a distance like that hopefully I have my rifle. I was just wandering if there was a general zero range for them. I went back to the range this morning and tried a few things. Im doing this for two purposes. One to learn the capabilities of my pistol but as ive stated I have access to a shotgun and an M4 while at work and Id probably grab my AR or my shotgun in an HD type situaition. The second reason is and I think it will help is trigger control. With my rifles and shotguns Its easy to hit the target at 100 yards now im not talking for groups but to just put wholes in a man sized target. Off hand im everyware at 100 yards with the pistol I need a rest to hit it.

Today I shot a Beretta one of the double singles ya know with the hammer that locks back not sure the model but it was a 9mm also my G30 (.45). The .45acp from that short barrel dropped like a rock!! I had to aim at the top of the head to hit the target and it was difficult to do. I shot a little better with the work pistol and was able to hit the target often I was even able to hit the small steel 8 inch targets every once and a while. However the Beretta we shot some buffalo bore 115g +p+ (1400fps factory statement) we also shot speer 124g +p and some winchester white box 115g fmj. With the 115g fmj the holdover was a little less than with my duty ammo. The 124g +p was even less than that of the FMJ and I started hitting it almost every time. The Buffalo bore we did not shoot much thats what my buddy keeps in it for carry. He bought some new stuff so we shot the old. We both where hitting it almost every time and the holdover was significantly less.

For the next two weeks or so im gonna go to the range a few times and keep trying this to see if I can improve it. Then what im gonna do is bring my AR out and run through a rifle qual see if my groups / score improves.

Is this like compareing apples to oranges or a viable way to work on trigger control, simply because its more difficult than with a rifle and I have to focus more?
 

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It will make you a better pistol shot because you will master the fundamentals of sight alignment and trigger control. Also, it's a good skill to have in case the fight finds you when you don't have the rifle.
 
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