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Seems a lot of us get wrapped up in numbers, myself included! I thought this little dissertaion about an article in Rifleshooter might just give a bit of insight into the "magic" the Whelen brings to the table. :D

QUOTE:
Spring 2005 Rifleshooter Magazine declares 35 Whelen the most efficient!

An article in March/April 2005 Rifleshooter Magazine entitled Cartridge Efficiency, written by George W. Calef, proposes - "Forget about the highest power and velocity : which rounds produce the most with the powder they burn?"

I think Calef's article is somewhat flawed with errors of fact, some questions about logic, and and some ommisions (like straight walled cases like the 444 Marlin and the 45- 70 and other worthy efficient wildcats). However, his basic conclusions about 35s are no suprise to knowledgable 35 calibre fans. They confirm my own reflections on relative cartridge efficiency. Calef presents his findings;

"I put my money on the 7mm-08, the .284 Winchester, or the .308 Win., with the thought in the back of my mind that, just possibly, the wonderful little .250 Savage would beat them all. Boy was I astonished when the numbers started rolling in - suprised on several counts in fact - and I suspect you will be too.

To keep you from holding your breath any longer, the winner is the .35 Whelen. This venerable cartridge (a long time wildcat designed way back in 1930 in honor of Col. Townsend Whelen and finally legitimized in 1995 [note - error of fact - should read 1988] by Remington) delivers more kinetic energy and a higher L [Wooter's lethality index] factor per grain of powder burned than any other cartridge.

In Ackley's improved version it is even better, becoming the only cartridge on the list capable of generating more than 50 ft-lbs of energy and a L factor exceeding 5.00 at 200 yards for each grain of powder loaded.
End Quote

Whelen's Northwoods Trails 35 caliber site - 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester, 356 Winchester, and other great 35s discussed
Great discussions, debating, defending our favorite cartridges. I used to stand in the camp that favors speed over mass - O'Connor vs Keith. It was the disappointing performance of my 7 Mag (now sold) on big hogs (with good bullets) and the devastating field performances of my Whelen that moved me over to the Keith side of things. YMMV, of course. :)

Ballistic tables are invaluable and tremendously useful resources for information, but terminal results in the field prove more than the manuals and charts. The .35's being excellent examples of this on bigger, heavier game than deer and yotes,……but will take them down with authority as well. :cool:

No question, there are cartridges with better reach. But, at all more reasonable ranges, place your shot well and a .35 will surprise you on how fast it will put your game on the ground - now. Many of us choose our .35's for just that reason.
 

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I hunted for many years with a 35 Remington. I had wanted a 35 Whelen from the time I was old enough to read hunting magazines. Being born and raised in Louisiana, I never saw one and never thought i needed one. Just something I wanted, something of a legend to dream about. A few months back I found a beautiful Model 700 BDL in a gun shop a couple of hours away from the house. I went home and pulled some things out of the safe and made an even trade for it. It came with a nice 4 X 12 Leupold. I really do not think the gun had been fired, maybe a few rounds. The metal is 100 % and the wood is almost that good. It was made in 1989. Shoots one hole groups with the Barnes 225 TSX. I am trying to get it to shoot the Hornady 200 grain spire point. It shoots almost every thing OK, but cannot quite get the load down. I happened to have some of those and think they would be good for deer.

I don't know if I will be physically able to go Elk hunting or not, but I am ready with this rifle if I do. In the meantime, there are plenty of hogs to practice on.
 

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I only recently got turned on to the 35 Whelen and I thought there must be something to it as it seems to have a lot of love by many. I discovered there was an article in the April 2014 edition of Handloader magazine and it's most informative.

I liked what I read and heard so much I found a Remington 700 Classic and bought it...should be here next week. I feel sure it will live up to all I've read. I'm having Accurate moulds build a mould with a 210 and 245 gr bullet in the same mould
 

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Discussion Starter #44
I hunted for many years with a 35 Remington. I had wanted a 35 Whelen from the time I was old enough to read hunting magazines. Being born and raised in Louisiana, I never saw one and never thought i needed one. Just something I wanted, something of a legend to dream about. A few months back I found a beautiful Model 700 BDL in a gun shop a couple of hours away from the house. I went home and pulled some things out of the safe and made an even trade for it. It came with a nice 4 X 12 Leupold. I really do not think the gun had been fired, maybe a few rounds. The metal is 100 % and the wood is almost that good. It was made in 1989. Shoots one hole groups with the Barnes 225 TSX. I am trying to get it to shoot the Hornady 200 grain spire point. It shoots almost every thing OK, but cannot quite get the load down. I happened to have some of those and think they would be good for deer.

I don't know if I will be physically able to go Elk hunting or not, but I am ready with this rifle if I do. In the meantime, there are plenty of hogs to practice on.
Congrats, sounds like a great rifle. FWIW, that Hornady 200gr SP interlock bullet is the same one used by Hornady in their Whelen Superformance loading. All that I've heard that have tried it have found it to work well. My all weather Hawkeye sure likes it and my 750 Carbine will probably digest a few this fall as well. It is pushed at high velocity from that load.
 

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Spent an hour last night penning a small dissertation on my history with 35's and when I hit the post button I had been kicked off the forum and I lost it all, so today I'm going to keep it short.
Grew up watching grandpa slay deer and elk at unholy distances with his model 8 35 Rem, (don't call me out when I say he routinely took deer with it at 250 yards+. (This is in southern Idaho and northern Utah.)
My cousin inherited that rifle, but I have owned a good half dozen 8's and 81's in the ensuing half century. Owned a T/C contender 14" bbl in 35 Rem. (180 grain Hornady SSSP's over a load of Re7).
Along the way discovered the Colonel and his '06 wildcat. Bought a Classic when they came out. That rifle gobbled a lot of RCBS 250 cast over the span of a half dozen years, but the magic was never there and it funded another project.
Was introduced to the 358 Win by Patrick Smith at one of his Colorado Rondys and was smitten. Tried it first in the new Ruger Hbwkeye, but like the 700 Classic, it didn't pull my heart strings, so........time flies, I picked up a 1943 Smith Corona 03A3 Sporter with original barrel. It went to my gunsmith and came home reborn, 24" medium contour 35 AI.
More time passes and one day I leave the Pawn shop in Beaver Utah with a nearly new 1983 vintage steel BLR 81 in cal 358 Win strapped to my motorcycle. (Got a few looks going home).
Somewhere along in there I discovered the Remington model 14, found one in a Salt Lake City gun store, Deluxe grade, French walnut, fine line checkering, Lyman 38 sight, built in 1918, 35 Rem. Now, being a Utah boy, I am all over John Browning, own a variety of his lever guns, and other designs, but I am here to tell you that little Model 14 is the slickest woods gun this side of Mars.
So, that is where my 35 stable stands today, a custom '03 35 Ackley, 1941 model 81 Woodsmaster, 1983 BLR, and 1918 Remington model 14.
I'm an elk hunter hunter, meat not horns, so I try very hard to put a spike or cow on the ground annually, and I can honestly say that the 35's make it happen.
 

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I'm a late convert to the .35 caliber. Out of necessity at first. But seeing the .35 perform first hand has won me over.

My .35 WSSM is an Indiana deer hunting wildcat that duplicates the .358 Winchester.

I'm convinced that a man could be happy his whole life east of the Mississippi with only a .35 Remington or .358 Winchester for his big game rifle.

.357 Mag case for scale.

 

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I'm a late convert to the .35 caliber. Out of necessity at first. But seeing the .35 perform first hand has won me over.

My .35 WSSM is an Indiana deer hunting wildcat that duplicates the .358 Winchester.

I'm convinced that a man could be happy his whole life east of the Mississippi with only a .35 Remington or .358 Winchester for his big game rifle.

.357 Mag case for scale.


+1 Kludge.
Outstanding photo btw. Camera and lens?
 

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I never heard of that WSSM wildcat. Very interesting. There's something about those short, stubby cartridges that I like, and stuffing that Flex-Tip in there is pretty nice.

How are the ballistics?

My only acquisition in this caliber is this Marlin. I love the caliber better than near any other I have.

 

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+1 Kludge.
Outstanding photo btw. Camera and lens?
iPhone 4s, if I recall correctly. :cool:

I never heard of that WSSM wildcat. Very interesting. There's something about those short, stubby cartridges that I like, and stuffing that Flex-Tip in there is pretty nice.

How are the ballistics?
22" barrel, 14" twist, 200gr Interlock and FTX @ 2525fps... but I should be able to punch it up to closer to 2600fps. 180gr bullets go close to 2700fps and 225gr SGK runs <2400fps.

Sighted 3" high at 100 yd, it will drop to 3" low at 235-240 yards. 200gr and 225gr bullets have nearly identical trajectories out to 300 yards, but the 225's hold onto energy much better, however I believe the 200gr could be a 250 yard elk rifle and the 225gr might go 300 yards on elk. The 200 gr is plenty for whitetail out to 300 yards.

I've been tempted to ream the chamber out to 1.8" to take advantage of the new law, but the 30-06 level recoil is enough for me, and 300 yards is quite enough range for the places I have hunted so far.

The 1.8" .358 WSM would be a legitimate 50-state rifle, and with the new 200gr Nosler it would hang on to the magic 2000fps and 2000fpe out to 400 yards (at sea level).



The cool thing about the FTX is that I can back it way down to .35 Rem levels for a "youth" load with fairly mild recoil... and back it down even further with 180gr SSP.
 

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.35 rifles

I too like my .348 model 71 but in all of the years flying from Montana to Oregon and back, I wanted a "survival" rifle to slide easily into my Cessna. So I cut the bbl of my .35 Whelen back to 20" and assumed it would handle anything in Idaho if I went down. Never had to use it.
 

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Want one

Been following this since it started and you fellows have me wanting to jump on one myself. Really like the idea of a Marlin in 35 rem to add to the safe or try a 35 Whelen out and see if I can handle the recoil.
Can't be any worse than my old Mod 70 06 with 180gr and the steel butt plate.(can it)
 

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These are some general guidelines from Chuck Hawks rifle recoil tables. Give or take a little for each caliber.
**************Rifle Weight; Recoil Energy; Recoil Velocity
.357 Mag. (158 at 1650)-----------7.0; 4.7; 6.6
.35 Rem. (200 at 2050)------------7.5; 13.5; 10.8
.358 Win. (200 at 2490)-----------8.0; 20.9; 13.0
.35 Whelen (200 at 2675)---------8.0; 22.6; 13.5
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 at 2700)----8.5; 22.3; 13.0

7MMLC, by comparison the 30-06 will shoot a 180gr bullet and give recoil of about 20.3 recoil energy.
 
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I too was not much a fan of the .35s until forced to due to the Indiana laws. Most .35s were too long, so I, like most people, had to make my own. Starting with the .35 WSSM and 1.625 length the results were so-so, nothing to write home about, but when it went to 1.800 and I could use the .325 WSM case, formed, cut back and necked up, things got interesting. A 200 gr. TTSX at 2803 fps is nothing to sneeze at and while it may not be the fastest cat, it is a cat that will work through a semi LR-308 giving one 6 rounds (5+1) with under MOA accuracy. I'll take that. My original hopes with the .35 WSSM was to equal the .35 Whelen, but that did not happen, then with the 1.800 length I blew it away. Happy, happy, joy, joy!
Now, I wonder what it would do if opened to .375 and .416? Time to start saving my lunch money.

Kludge, check your long range trajectory tables. The 200 will actually shoot flatter than a faster 180 past about 300 yards, and if you really want to stretch it, the 225 will shoot flatter than the 200 past about 500 yds IIRC. Light fast bullets tend to shed their velocity a lot quicker and while they are flatter initially, once you get out to range they fall by the wayside pretty quickly. That was why I settled on the 200 gr. TTSX throat when I recut my chamber from 1.625 to 1.800 and also shortened up the throat which had originally been cut for the 225 TSX. The 200 TTSX shot flatter than the 180 at the maximum ranges that I would likely ever take a shot.
 
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These are some general guidelines from Chuck Hawks rifle recoil tables. Give or take a little for each caliber.
**************Rifle Weight; Recoil Energy; Recoil Velocity
.357 Mag. (158 at 1650)-----------7.0; 4.7; 6.6
.35 Rem. (200 at 2050)------------7.5; 13.5; 10.8
.358 Win. (200 at 2490)-----------8.0; 20.9; 13.0
.35 Whelen (200 at 2675)---------8.0; 22.6; 13.5
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 at 2700)----8.5; 22.3; 13.0

7MMLC, by comparison the 30-06 will shoot a 180gr bullet and give recoil of about 20.3 recoil energy.
Thanks Stretch, I've used a Past recoil shield while shooting from the bench anymore and helps a lot with the rebuilt shoulder. Never can recall what it feels like shooting at game.:)
 

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I ran across an interesting read on the 35's in an old edition of Handloader magazine. Dated Jan-Feb 1971 Number 29 George Nonte had an article entitled "Are 35's Brushbusters?". He covered everything fro the 351 to the 35 Whelen. Worthwhile to read if you have that copy.
 

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Dang, this thread is messing me up, I know I really don't need a .35 anything really but I keep reading this thread over and over and now find myself with a deep desire for a 35 Whelen. I like single shot rifles and the CVA Apex looks really nice, all SS, 25" fluted barrel, adjustable trigger from 3-4.75lbs, synthetic stock and they even have barrels in 222 Rem which is something I've wanted for a while.



http://www.cva.com/Apex-Rifle-from-CVA.php
 

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These are some general guidelines from Chuck Hawks rifle recoil tables. Give or take a little for each caliber.
**************Rifle Weight; Recoil Energy; Recoil Velocity
.357 Mag. (158 at 1650)-----------7.0; 4.7; 6.6
.35 Rem. (200 at 2050)------------7.5; 13.5; 10.8
.358 Win. (200 at 2490)-----------8.0; 20.9; 13.0
.35 Whelen (200 at 2675)---------8.0; 22.6; 13.5
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 at 2700)----8.5; 22.3; 13.0
Interesting numbers for sure. I have owned all of these but the .358 Winchester, as I never had the cash in hand, when I spotted one that I liked.

Looking at the numbers, and shooting each rifle for quite a while I plugged in some numbers I had in my log book, for my .77/357, .35/M336, a long retired .350, my current CDL Whelen, and my 7600 Whelen.



The numbers move around a bit with rifle weight and bullet weight, of course, but it's easy to see that a .35 Remington with a upper end load can bite worse than the .30-06, and with a hard butt plate, it does. My first trip to the range with the 7600, which had the OEM butt plate, was quite an experience. Recoil was nearly the same as my .375, and the butt plate just added to the experience. And yes, my 7600 does weigh less than my M336's on a postal scale. I rarely let anyone else shoot it.
 

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Fred243-get the .222 AND the Whelen. I have a Sako Vixen .222 and by this Friday I should have the Whelen. I've already got it all ready...dies, brass, assortment of bullets, RL-15 and IMR 4064 to start, Hornady's modified case length gauge and bullet comparator, and a 2-cavity mould in the works. Did I leave anything out?:)
 

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I have two Handi Rifles and a Savage 24 in .357 Maximum. The Savage is over a 20 ga, barrel One of my favorite Handis is my custom .356/-358......yeah, it shoots and extracts both. I got my buck last fall with that one

Pete
 
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