[j m martineau]

I have searched high and low for Federal brass and it's not to be found, so I came up with this. Go to Wally World, purchase Federal hunting ammo for $18 you get 20 rounds, for $36 YOU GET 40, use them for foul shots and fireform them at the same time. Now you have 40 reloadable cases. If you were to by 50 brass cases you would pay just about that much and still have to load fouling rounds. Before you say anything I have been using the same ten cases for the 11th time and have not had to full length size them for my Rem 700 .308 only neck size, and am getting 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 inch groups at 500 yards. Just food for thought for those looking for Federal brass.

 

[broom_jm]

I can't argue with your results, but uh...

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00129P308UPB50

 

[arkypete]

I buy my Federal Brass, once fired, from the Brass man, a thousand rounds at a time, for my AR10.
brassmanbrass.com Home Page
Jim

 

[UnCruel]

If you ask them, Federal will tell you that primers are the only components they sell. Nevertheless, I've seen some new, unfired Federal brass here and there. Nothing consistent, and I have never seen brass for the two cartridges that bear their name (.338 Federal and .327 Federal Magnum).

 

[dmsbandit]

Personally, I wouldn't use federal 308 brass if it was given to me free. I sell every piece I pick up. The stuff is an accident waiting to happen.

I've had more MAJOR case failures with Federal 308 brass than all other brass combined. 2-3 firings and the primers fall out if you're lucky. I've also had a case weld itself to the boltface of a 308 when using a moderate load. I had 6 complete case head separations in 3 weeks in 2009, and that cured me from ever using them again. The gun's chamber is perfect, the cases are perfect according to a Wilson case gauge, and NO OTHER brand has EVER had the same issues.


My 308 case of choice is Military brass, Norma, or Lapua. I get well over 20 loadings before the primers get loose and I've NEVER had a headseparation with those brands.

 

[unclenick]

Federal brass softness comes up repeatedly. Dan Newberry flat out states that it is not suitable for reloading. Others have said they've had no issues with it, but you don't really know what pressures their loads had in their guns. So, even though they are not reliable pressure measuring methods, if I were stuck with reloading just Federal brass, I would aim to be loading 5% below MAP charge weight (10% below MAP pressure, give or take) or lower, and would be measuring case head expansion and pressure ring expansion (CHE and PRE), probing for a detectable pressure ring, and would be checking that primers were not getting easier to insert or decap with each load cycle.

Military brass, Lapua, and Winchester are my go-too's. The military stuff is rugged for the M1A. The Lapua, like Norma, are dimensionally very tight—match brass in a bag—but the edge goes to Lapua on toughness, IME, and both are expensive enough that matters to me. Winchester made its 1992 Palma Match case design become its standard .308 Win case design, and this has more case capacity than any other brand, and so is my go-to for long range loads. I do sort it, as its dimensional regularity is below that of any of the others I've mentioned.

 

[kdub]

I dunno'...................

Seems I've had what I consider bad batches of brass from about every maker, including Norma and Lapua.

Can't say the Federal is any worse than W-W or R-P. I've learned that the utmost in velocity/pressure really doesn't help with accuracy or thumps on the ol' bones, so I've moderated the loadings with "moderating" age and find my brass of all makes seem to last way longer. Don't think I'll throw my stash of Federal away just yet.

 

[dmsbandit]

Federal brass softness comes up repeatedly. Dan Newberry flat out states that it is not suitable for reloading. Others have said they've had no issues with it, but you don't really know what pressures their loads had in their guns. So, even though they are not reliable pressure measuring methods, if I were stuck with reloading just Federal brass, I would be aim to be loading 5% below MAP and would be measuring case head expansion and pressure ring expansion (CHE and PRE), probing for a detectable pressure ring, and would be checking that primers were not getting easier to insert or decap with each load cycle.

Military brass, Lapua, and Winchester are my go-too's. The military stuff is rugged for the M1A. The Lapua, like Norma, are dimensionally very tight—match brass in a bag—but the edge goes to Lapua on toughness, IME, and both are expensive enough that matters to me. Winchester made its 1992 Palma Match case design become its standard .308 Win case design, and this has more case capacity than any other brand, and so is my go-to for long range loads. I do sort it, as its dimensional regularity is below that of any of the others I've mentioned.

When I started having the issues with federal 308 cases I thought it was something I was doing. Even with starting/minimum charge loads the case failures continued even though the cases were sized to spec.

The case that welded itself to the bolt face was the real scary one. It broke the face of the Model 7 bolt and destroyed the extractor. I sent some of the loads to Remington when I had the bolt replaced, and they told me "The cases were the cause of the incident".

I've advanced a theory as to why the problem only seems to exist with the federal 308 cases. Federal prides themselves on their 308 GMM ammo and it is the standard which others are measured to. My theory is that any case that doesn't make the grade for the match ammo is then put into the hunting ammo. Federal only cares aboout making the best case possible for the 1st shot, and doesn't care about the guy out there that reloads. So, the throw-away match cases are now being used in the hunting ammo and "Joe the Plumber" is trying to use them for his deer loads. So far, I haven't heard if I'm off base or not, but I'd bet I'm pretty close to being right.

 

[unclenick]

Ken's correct that anybody can have a bad batch. There was a period a few years ago when Lapua buyers were having fits over the flasholes not being free of burrs as they had been in the past, but Lapua corrected that. There are also complaints about the flash holes being smaller in some Lapua chamberings than in their US counterparts, but a drill bit and pin vice or a flash hole reamer will fix that fast enough if you don't like it.

Someone had some photos up of brass by one of the Eastern European makers using the brass disc rather than the brass slug forming method that had actual folds and creases visible in the head. It was from loaded rounds that fired, but none could be reloaded without a head separation occurring at firing. I sent a few new Lake City and IMI cases to a fellow on another board so he could satisfy himself that they would work in his gun. He had some LC 68 7.62 brass that would stick in his chamber even with loads that were 25% below normal. 32 grains of 4895 was all they could handle with 168 grain bullets without sticking.

Federal just seems to be problematic for more people. My dad has a couple old boxes of their unfired match brass he got a Camp Perry one year. If I can talk him out of them, I'll try some experiments. I do recall Hatcher mentioning that when he wanted to do some destructive testing of receivers he had to get the arsenal to make the headstamp markings extra deep to work-harden the heads enough so they wouldn't just blow out before he got to his desired test pressures. So, it seems this is a process issue with how many and what forming steps are taken.

 

[arkypete]

Personally, I wouldn't use federal 308 brass if it was given to me free. I sell every piece I pick up. The stuff is an accident waiting to happen.

I've had more MAJOR case failures with Federal 308 brass than all other brass combined. 2-3 firings and the primers fall out if you're lucky. I've also had a case weld itself to the boltface of a 308 when using a moderate load. I had 6 complete case head separations in 3 weeks in 2009, and that cured me from ever using them again. The gun's chamber is perfect, the cases are perfect according to a Wilson case gauge, and NO OTHER brand has EVER had the same issues.


My 308 case of choice is Military brass, Norma, or Lapua. I get well over 20 loadings before the primers get loose and I've NEVER had a headseparation with those brands.

I'm sorry you had problems with Federal Brass.
I use my once fired 308 brass in an AR10 for five reloadings and retire them to the scrap can. I can't say how well other maker's brass will work, as I've not used them.

Jim

 

[MikeG]

I've had a federal case partly separate on the second firing, and stuck another in a die. Also, when pulling bullets with some, rims were pretty bent up by the inertial puller.

Shame as their premium line has been very good stuff in my experience.

 

[flashhole]

Knock on wood but the only problem I've had with Federal brass in my 25-06 is the primer pockets gettng too large to hold a primer. Seems I get about 3 reloads before I have to send them to the scrap bucket.

 

[Tom W.]

The only problem that I've had with any Federal .308 brass was when I used a near max load of Varget with a 165-168 grain bullet. The bolt would stick and I'd have to do some work to get it open. This was in a NIB Savage model 12. The near max loads of RL 15 didn't give me any problems..

 

[dmsbandit]

I'm sorry you had problems with Federal Brass.
I use my once fired 308 brass in an AR10 for five reloadings and retire them to the scrap can. I can't say how well other maker's brass will work, as I've not used them.

Jim

The problems I've had have occurred with 3 different 308 chambered guns. In my experience, the problem only seems to exist with the 308 cases. That's what leads me to believe Federal is sending the cases that don't meet GMM standards to the hunting ammo line.

 

[unclenick]

Flashhole and Tom W.,

If you check my pressure signs sticky, you'll see you are both describing high pressure signs in the brass. That does not mean you've exceeded the SAAMI MAP, but rather just that the pressure is too high for the particular chamber and brass combination you have. The brass, which acts like a seal in the chamber, is flowing too much. Its like using grease to plug a leak that needs wax.

It is perfectly possible for a below-SAAMI-MAP pressure to destroy a gun due to brass failure. The high pressure gas is what actually does the damage. In a bolt gun it cuts the perimeter off the bolt face and often vents down and blows the magazine out and the stock to pieces. Hatcher's Notebook has a number of pictures of this result. All it takes is for the brass to be too soft in a part of the chamber that doesn't support it well enough.

There is really is a separate pressure maximum for every combination of chamber and brass. Nothing says the SAAMI MAP has to be it. All you know for sure about a piece of once-fired brass is that it didn't exhibit pressure signs when fired just once with its original factory load. Brass that sees its primer pocket get loose quickly or that causes sticky extraction is simply flowing too much and failing to have adequate elastic rebound. That means it's too soft for that load level.

The bottom line is, you work loads up watching for pressure signs and back down 5% when you get one. It's an old formula, but can save you guns and body parts.

 

[c.robertson]

This will bring tears to some eyes.
Last year I sold .223 Federal brass for $50.00 per 3 gallon bucket. It was 99.9% crimped primers, but good brass. I sorted out the non-crimped for personel use, about 5 gallon.
In case someone does not know, Federal .223 ammo loaded for Law Enforcement has crimped primers, just like military brass. The brass came from a police range when they went through qualification with M-4's. About 3 or 400 officers shooting several hundred rounds every year.
Federal brass IS softer than other brands, it does wear out quicker and primer pockets do expand quicker, even with milder loads.

 

[byrl]

This thread has been very interesting reading. I have abut 100 Federal .308 cases that have been reloaded six or seven times and I haven't lost a case yet to separations, expanded primer pockets, or any other problem. But, I also have to admit that I only use the Federal cases to reload cast bullets with SR4759 powder. Since my velocities are in the 2,000 fps range, I imagine my pressures are below 30,000. That's probably why I have never had a problem with Federal brass. For jacketed bullets, I use strictly Winchester brass. The choice was purely by chance, when I started casting for my .308 a few years ago, at the same time I had picked up the Federal brass once fired at our range. Never knew there was a possible problem with it. Well, I guess I will stick to cast bullets only for my Federal brass and not cross over to jacketed bullets with it. A good thing to know about.

 

[Tom W.]

I know it didn't take but one shot for me to pull the Varget loads.


My son won't use any Federal brass, in any caliber.
Nor will he use military brass...

 

[Sharp74]

most my federal brass is 06 brass mostly loaded for M1 Garand so i keep the pressure down anyways cant says ive had any problems with it it there either. Guess I have some for 32 Special but it a low pressure cast bullet round so prob low pressure rounds one may not notice alot.. Almost all the rest of my brass is Starline or Winchester.

 

[dmsbandit]

As I've said before on this thread and others, I personally have only seen the problem with the 308 cases. I use Federal 243, 270, 30-06, 357mag, 41magnum, 45colt, and others with NO problems. It's the 308 cases I avoid like the plague.