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I'm thinking of ordering a fiber optic sight to go in front of my williams 5d sight on my 444 Marlin. I'm just worried it won't be visible in the early morning and late evening light. The rifle is used just for deer hunting. What do you guys say? Also what height should I order?
 

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I have a Williams front Fire Sight (Red) on my Ruger M-77/44 and have a peep sight mounted on the rifle. Have no problem seeing it in the woods when it becomes legal hunting hours. You will most likely need a higher front sight but since I don't own a rifle like yours, I wouldn't know what height would work best for your rifle.
 

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I have a fiber optic front and aperture rear sight on my 1894 Marlin. For me, it works better than a black iron front sight.
 

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I've been using FO sights ever since they were first introduced, many years ago - and can tell you that the only times you might have an issue with them is when shooting in a very brightly-lit setting, like in a snow-covered field, a barren desert, or shooting targets at a range.

If you cannot see a FO sight, then it's usually not legal shooting time/hours (in the US).

In the woods, at dawn/dusk or in those shady swamps, there's no better iron sight available.

FO sights work on the principle of gathering all available light from the sides & top of the FO rod, then project the brightness out of the end of the rod - so covering one with a sight hood drastically diminishes their effectiveness.
Sight hoods with a ceiling hole cut into them are available from Williams, for those who cannot do w/o a hood.

If your .444 is zeroed with that Williajms 5D peep sight and your existing front sight blade, just install a FO sight blade that's the same height, measured from the top to the bottom of the male dovetail.

If you get the exact same height FO sight, and remember to mark the front sight ramp with the position of the old/existing sight before it's removed, then the FO bead can be simply pushed into the same place/mark w/o having to re-zero the rifle.

FO front sights are available (just like Gold or Ivory beads) in two bead diameters (1/16"/fine & 3/32"/coarse), and in various colors (red, green, amber, yellow, etc) from various makers (Williams, Hi-Viz, TruGlo, Marbles, T/C, etc) so that users whose eyes have different degrees of color perception (color blindness) can choose a color they can actually see/use.


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If it's dovetailed into the barrel, just remember that it has to be driven out from left to right as you look down the barrel. It needs to be inserted from right to left. They are tapered and that's the reason for this. Rang44 gave you some good advice. I put a fiber optic on my 1886 and find it very easy to use in the dimmest of light. In bright light it glows too much for fine target work but for shooting game it's perfect.
 

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If it's dovetailed into the barrel, just remember that it has to be driven out from left to right as you look down the barrel. It needs to be inserted from right to left. They are tapered and that's the reason for this. Rang44 gave you some good advice. I put a fiber optic on my 1886 and find it very easy to use in the dimmest of light. In bright light it glows too much for fine target work but for shooting game it's perfect.
A Williams sight pusher would prevent any damage to the front sight.
 

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When I tried the FO earlier it had a halo around it and I had a real hard time trying to sight the gun in. I opted for an Ivory bead instead. That was a bright day. I have a couple of the fire sights that came with a Williams receiver sight. After reading this I may install one on my Marlin 336 that needs a taller front sight. I have a FO that should be just about right for height. My biggest gripe about peep sights is a problem with light early and late or in dark woods.
 

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A Williams sight pusher would prevent any damage to the front sight.
The slot and the sight are both tapered. It still has to be put in as described whether you use a pusher or a hammer. It's wider on one side than the other.
 

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When I tried the FO earlier it had a halo around it and I had a real hard time trying to sight the gun in. I opted for an Ivory bead instead. That was a bright day. I have a couple of the fire sights that came with a Williams receiver sight. After reading this I may install one on my Marlin 336 that needs a taller front sight. I have a FO that should be just about right for height. My biggest gripe about peep sights is a problem with light early and late or in dark woods.
Get a peep with an adjustable aperture. For "older eyes" that's the way to go. Even back when I was younger and shot competition a lot I used adjustable apertures. You'll get a lot better sight picture, take the "glow" off the fiber optic, and can see the target a lot clearer. Merit Corp. makes screw in adjustable apertures for most brands of sights. I have a few on Williams sights, Marbles sights, and a couple of Soule and Vernier sights as well. They're affordable and work wonders for a good sight picture.
 

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The slot and the sight are both tapered. It still has to be put in as described whether you use a pusher or a hammer. It's wider on one side than the other.
Regardless what you posted, I would never use a hammer to install a front "dovetailed" front sight on my rifle. First you place the sight into the dovetail and push it in by hand, to get it started, then finish using a Williams sight pusher.:)
 

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Regardless what you posted, I would never use a hammer to install a front "dovetailed" front sight on my rifle. First you place the sight into the dovetail and push it in by hand, to get it started, then finish using a Williams sight pusher.:)
Brownell's sells a number of punch type tools for installing front dovetail sights. They require the use of some type of "hammer" to use them with. My point is, and you don't seem to be reading this correctly, is that the sights are not parallel on the sides and DO have a front and back side. A knowledgeable gunsmith knows this and a lot of shade tree gunsmiths do not. Many a good dovetail and sight has been ruined by installing the sight incorrectly. Sometimes it pays to listen.
 

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Brownell's sells a number of punch type tools for installing front dovetail sights. They require the use of some type of "hammer" to use them with. My point is, and you don't seem to be reading this correctly, is that the sights are not parallel on the sides and DO have a front and back side. A knowledgeable gunsmith knows this and a lot of shade tree gunsmiths do not. Many a good dovetail and sight has been ruined by installing the sight incorrectly. Sometimes it pays to listen.
Yes, I understand this thread, and from what I understand the OP wants to replace his factory front sight with a fiber optic sight. Since we're discussing a Marlin lever action, he might be able to just buy a whole front sight after market assembly of the proper type, and just install it. Like I said, I don't own a Marlin Lever Action but I bet Williams Gunsight Co. has replacement front & rear sights for this type rifle. I certainly would go this route, in replacing the front sight.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/rifle1.htm
 

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Yes, I understand this thread, and from what I understand the OP wants to replace his factory front sight with a fiber optic sight. Since we're discussing a Marlin lever action, he might be able to just buy a whole front sight after market assembly of the proper type, and just install it. Like I said, I don't own a Marlin Lever Action but I bet Williams Gunsight Co. has replacement front & rear sights for this type rifle. I certainly would go this route, in replacing the front sight.

WILLIAMS Gun Sight Company - FireSight Rifle Sets
If it's a dovetail front sight it still has to be driven out to be replaced. It doesn't sound like you totally understand that a dovetail sight has a dimensional difference and needs to be installed correctly. For some reason you seem to be upset with me informing the OP that there is a correct orientation to a dovetail sight. What's your problem with this? This just brings me back to the old adage "the free information you get off the internet is worth every penny you paid for it". If the front sight on his gun is a ramp sight being held on with screws he can simply unscrew it and replace it. Pretty simple. If it's a dovetail sight he can drift it out correctly and replace it....a little more difficult. If he uses ANY tool incorrectly he can ruin the dovetail in the barrel. He needs all the information to do it correctly. Using any tool incorrectly can ruin the job. Now if you feel that there is more to add to this, go right ahead. I'm done addressing any further comments from you. I hope the OP has gotten some useful information out of all of this. I don't wish to distract from his thread any further.
 

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If it's a dovetail front sight it still has to be driven out to be replaced. It doesn't sound like you totally understand that a dovetail sight has a dimensional difference and needs to be installed correctly. For some reason you seem to be upset with me informing the OP that there is a correct orientation to a dovetail sight. What's your problem with this? This just brings me back to the old adage "the free information you get off the internet is worth every penny you paid for it". If the front sight on his gun is a ramp sight being held on with screws he can simply unscrew it and replace it. Pretty simple. If it's a dovetail sight he can drift it out correctly and replace it....a little more difficult. If he uses ANY tool incorrectly he can ruin the dovetail in the barrel. He needs all the information to do it correctly. Using any tool incorrectly can ruin the job. Now if you feel that there is more to add to this, go right ahead. I'm done addressing any further comments from you. I hope the OP has gotten some useful information out of all of this. I don't wish to distract from his thread any further.
No, I am not upset with your post nsb, not at all. Any member here, who can help out the OP, with his rifle front sight issue, I am certain he will appreciate it, as we're here to help others with problems with their rifle, pistol or shotguns. Like I said in a couple of my posts, I don't own a Marlin rifle, but still I am able to understand his problem.

I am sorry you find my post and help incorrect; as I am only suggesting a solution to his issue, which I hope he soon finds an answer.
 

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To others who may be reading this thread: The Marlin .444 that the OP's referring to has the front sight blade mounted in a dovetail atop a front sight ramp, which ramp is secured to the barrel via 2 screws - that are easily sheared off if/when a hammer is used to drift the sight blade in/out without first properly supporting the ramp (not the barrel) before pounding away (or buy/use a sight pusher, especially if multiple guns are owned that may sometime need a new/different sight).

Sight pushers are useless for moving sights mounted directly in a barrel dovetail (no flat surface to get purchase); but OTOH, a sight pusher has saved me many times it's cost in ruined sights, ramps & also in gunsmith repair fees.


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nsb, I will look into the adjustable aperture. Did not know anyone made them. Thanks for the tip.
 

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dovetail sights

It is a good idea to have a triangle file handy when you put on a new dove tail sight. With it you can either widen the female part or narrow the male part. I have never been able to just slide one in. I think they are made just a little bit fat to allow them to fit fat females. You may be advised by some to use a high grade file with at least one safe side.but I always just use cheap imported files. If the fit is sloppy you can carefully peen the edges of the slot or center punch the bottom of the slot. I find making peep sights a fun hobby. I have even put them on shotguns. A larger diameter appature will improve your ability to use the sight in poor light. Many people just unscrew the one that comes in the sight and use the hole left behind.
 

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The florescent green fiber optic sights work best for me. They seem to have far more "glow" in dark timber than the flo red or orange ones. Think the last three I put on were Marbles.
 
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