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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
JBelk. . This is working out perfectly. . The winchester and R P brass form easy at 17.5gr. Of 700x .. I'm sure aneled necks helped .. but I will havto step up the PPU brass I'm thinking another grain .. man that PPU brass is tuff 17.5 did nothing for it ..
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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Darkker. . I've stated in post no. 6 that I've been loading for the 35-300 for many years .
Thousands of rounds .. just trying to find a new and cheap way to fireform .
My point exactly....馃槈馃榿馃榿
 
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I've never heard of a 35-300 but guessing it's a wildcat. One problem with wildcat's is with some of them case's need fire formed, not sure finding an inexpensive way is the best way to go. Sometimes is best to simply pay the piper!
 

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From many years ago. Fire forming at home in the garage.



Lidded 鈥淗omer bucket鈥 (or one tossed out from a construction site.)

Cut a 3鈥 hole in the top.

Fill with ripped up foam padding/carpet/etc.

Tape the lid down tight.

Keep a bucket of water/water hose close at hand (are likely to eventually set it on fire).

Put the muzzle though the lid's hole and 3-4鈥 into the ripped up foam/carpet.

Fire (it鈥檚 just high pressure grits and a bit of wax)

Makes a deep dull 鈥淭HUD鈥 sound, ejects a fire formed case.



SUBRUBAN CAMOFLAGE:

People are lazy. Give them a quick and easy explanation.

Fire up a gasoline lawnmower or chain saw and leave it running where they can see it.

Set up a saw horse and some random tools outside the garage鈥.if anyone notices the 鈥渢hump鈥, have a quick and easy visual reason for it.

Worst case, if you have a .22 balk stud driver...leave it where they can see it.








Last thought鈥





I understand that some of ya鈥檒l will actually eat cream of wheat...never could gag it down, but I always have coan meal at hand鈥.so I used corn meal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
35-300 is a idea to improve my old 35 rem in marlin336. . Wasn't sure what to call it but when redding put 35-300 on the custom die that solved my problem. . It's a 40掳 shoulder 358 case trimmed to 1.965.. works great in the marlin levergun with no problems.
easily duplicate the 356winchester .. fire forming worked great no set back primers
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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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What kind of ballistics do you get out of it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Same as 356winchester. . almost identical load data .. but a little bit more powder space because of the loaded lengh.. really only noticeable with the longer bullets like 250 gr. Speer and the barnes ttsx
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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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What's the max OAL you can get in your Marlin?
 

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Ok .. lead is to expensive to wast ..
I need a fire forming load for my 35-300 .. let's just say 356.. to simplify the situation. I wanting to use 700x and say cream of wheat. . I have plenty of ..
Sure don't like the thought of wasting a primer. .
I haven't fire formed any brass for nearly 50 years, but back then I fire formed a lot of brass for 6mm Remington using 17 gr. of Unique, Malt-O-Meal filler on top, and a plug of melted sealing wax. You can use any primer that fits the pocket, so if you have a store of primers you don't normally use for your normal loads, this would be a good application for them.
 

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ON THE SUBJECT OF FILLERS, for the purpose of keeping the small propellant charge nearest the primer pocket, has anyone used/heard of using lint from a clothes dryer instead of C.O.W., M-o-M, or grits? The claimed advantage is that it costs essentially nothing, does its job, then is consumed by the primer/powder flame front without forming a "secondary projectile", and makes for less clean-up than having to remove breakfast cereal from one's favorite "Super-High-Velocity-Meat-Homogenizer", or other pet firearm.

Different methods of application have come my way:
The method involves gently removing the "sheet" of lint from the dryer's collector screen, folding the sheet in half or in fourths, holding the lint sheet at opposite sides, and pressing it over the chamfered (beveled?) case mouth (more than once, depending on cartridge of interest). Gently pushing the cut felt parts toward the rear of the case (but without tamping down) with a cleaning rod or similar object helps with bottle-necked cases. The round is then "capped" with parafin wax, ivory soap, lard, whatever works, and fired.

Anyone tried this? I can think of some advantages, besides NOT having to "de-breakfast cereal" your firearms:
1.) If you are routinely raiding the clothes dryer lint trap, you are saving your better half at least one small step involved in keeping you in clean clothes.
2.) You are no longer depleting the better half's breakfast cereal supply, only to find that you've used the last of it just as (according to Murphy's law), the better half had plans to USE it in a recipe.

What think?
 

The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I use polyester pillow stuffing (dacron) for lapping loads. Cram as much in the case as possible, with 3-5 grains of a fast powder next to the primer. That isn't a fire-forming load, but maybe a hint in the right direction. Also fire them into a box of rags; sometimes the 'stuffing' comes out in a solid plug. Anyway.....

Marlins, mine at least, aren't too happy with OALs more than 2.550" or thereabouts, in my experience. You can use a (slightly) longer OAL with a spitzer bulllet and still feed from the mag tube, but then can't eject a loaded round. Fortunately, I found that out with a dummy round.

I cut the ejector back slightly, and gained a little, but don't see any way of cycling rounds close to 2.8"..... so I'd be curious about all the modifications needed.
 

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There is no breakfast cereal gunk left, only the smell of burnt corn. One pull of the Snake and its clean. I don't want sparks coming out the front, that's why 'inert' fillers. Nothing but compacted toilet paper 'works' but it takes more powder and the results aren't nearly as good as grits or similar with enough bulk to 'iron' the brass to the chamber.

Has anyone used a hydraulic expansion technique. I've seen it done with a seating die. It's very fast, very good results and uses no components. Fred Barnes used a section of 'barrel' with the special chamber in it but the bore was reamed for a slurp fit piston.
Lots of ways to skin that cat.
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
MikeG .. Ranger point. . They'll do the action stretch for you .. And check out the SG 444 and 35.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
JBelk. . I've been curious about the hydraulic case forming myself. . And have had a few ideas of a home made setup.
I attended a class once where we were introduced to hydro forming
 

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I used to do a lot of fireforming with cereal back in the day. I found that the best for that use was yellow corn meal. Cream of wheat tended to compress too much into a plug that could cause pressure spikes. I also never used any powder faster than Unique. If case forming with a sizer die gets you close, then back it off just enough to make chambering it a tight fit. Then fire a full power load with a light bullet. You have to get full pressure to fully form the angles of the neck and shoulder areas, and to get full case expansion, and you can't get that with cereal forming loads. You can set up a zero headspace condition by leaving a slight false shoulder to create a tight fit. Whether you use a full power starting load, or a cereal fire forming load, the important thing is to make sure you have zero headspace to fully form the case. If you have to form cases in town, you can use a 15 gal beer keg with the bung knocked out. Stick the muzzle into the bung hole with a towel to protect the barrel finish and fire the forming round. It will ring the keg like a gong, but outside nobody will hear it. Be sure to let the dust settle between shots, and rinse the keg out to remove the residue every 5 or so rounds. Did hundreds of cases that way with perfect results, and saved myself a dozen or more trips to the range just to fire those forming loads.
 

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JBelk. . I've been curious about the hydraulic case forming myself. . And have had a few ideas of a home made setup.
I attended a class once where we were introduced to hydro forming
Contact Bruce Finnegan on the MDWS group page on FB. He has a whole line of wildcats, and has had hydroforming dies made up for several of them. They work very well. Just like fire forming with cereal however, you still have to run a full power start level load at a minimum to fully blow out the angles and body. Hydro forming is useful for converting cases that would require several steps of regular mechanical forming. It also has the advantage of forming case walls and necks more uniformly than mechanical forming can do, in many cases completely eliminating the need to turn necks to even out wall thickness.
 
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jimboro-- The guy I saw doing it made a plug to fit the upper end of a .219Imp Zipper seating die with a center bore reamed and honed to a slurp fit of a .375" dowel pin. The hydraulic 'adapter' was about the same size as the die. A flat-bottomed recess in a steel plate .125 deep held the case head and the die was set down over it and ATF squirted in the top until it was about an inch below the top where a weep hole was located. A dowel pin was pushed into the top and a rag wrapped around the whole works kept down the spatter from the weep hole, held down securely, and the dowel pin smacked soundly with a two pound hammer. He did it without a primer but said it was best to have a fired primer in place. He did 20 cases for a fellow gunsmithing student's rifle in a very few minutes. He said the hydraulic 'adapter' worked on any standard dies of the time. The mouths were 'crimped' and needed an expander, but it sure saved a lot of time and components.

Fred Barnes did the same thing with DOM tubing acting as the die. He had several sizes of pistons with o-rings to fit the various sizes of bores in the metal he was using. The scrap ends of DOM were gathered from a hydraulics place in town. They were 1 1/2 diameter with center holes drawn over mandrels and then honed for hydraulic valve repairs. He also used a hammer to do the deed and said some needed more than one hammer treatment.
 
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