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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey ya all. I'm new to reloading and have a ton of questions but will keep it to one or two cause it can get overwhelming.
So I reloaded my first set of rounds for my Remington 30-06 using new Winchester brass, IMR 4451 powder, CCI large primer, and Hornady 200gr ELD-X.
So my first question is setting the headspace for reloading again. I have Hornady match grade sizing dies. How do I know what size bushing will I need? Any help and recommendations are always welcome. I have my bullet depth set at 2.766" to 2.756" and 45.7gn and 48.9gn of powder respectively according to Hornady hand book.
 

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Welcome to the shooters forum!

You are starting off on the right foot since there is a reloading manual involved. Do what it advises on starting low and working up while watching for over pressure signs. Just a note in that regard, by the time classic pressure signs appear you could be massively over pressure. If you have a chronograph use it. When you reach the published velocity or book maximum charge it's time to stop increasing the charge. Chances are you will find a sweet spot or two before that point.

I've been handloading for 30-06 a bunch of years. Haven't used your combination of components so no advice there. If that don't work out to your expectation you could always try the old standby load of IMR4350 and 165 grain bullet.

Good luck and glad you joined us!
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Welcome, there are tools for setting your sizing die in the proper location, so that cases chamber easily yet aren't worn out too soon from stretching. Hornady makes one, as do others. I assume that is what you mean by 'headspace.'

If you are only asking about setting the seating depth for a particular bullet - well, the sky's the limit there, so to speak, and you'll have to 'fiddle' with that to find out what works best for your gun.

Congrats, and enjoy the hobby! Let us know what sort of results you get on target.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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The last set of Hornady dies I bought, didn't use "bushings"; so that has me confused....

Set the dies up, according to the instructions, and test the empty case for proper closing in the rifle.

Cheers
 
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Hey ya all. I'm new to reloading and have a ton of questions but will keep it to one or two cause it can get overwhelming.
So I reloaded my first set of rounds for my Remington 30-06 using new Winchester brass, IMR 4451 powder, CCI large primer, and Hornady 200gr ELD-X.
So my first question is setting the headspace for reloading again. I have Hornady match grade sizing dies. How do I know what size bushing will I need? Any help and recommendations are always welcome. I have my bullet depth set at 2.766" to 2.756" and 45.7gn and 48.9gn of powder respectively according to Hornady hand book.
First of all...Welcome. What do you mean by bullet depth? The overall cartridge length with that bullet should be anywhere from 3.2 to 3.3 inches.

Love your choice of bullets. Are you punching paper or are these for hunting. I've never loaded about 180 gr. in the 06.

Good luck and all the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
First of all...Welcome. What do you mean by bullet depth? The overall cartridge length with that bullet should be anywhere from 3.2 to 3.3 inches.

Love your choice of bullets. Are you punching paper or are these for hunting. I've never loaded about 180 gr. in the 06.

Good luck and all the best.
The bullet depth is from the bottom of the brass to the bullet ogive. The bullet weight is 200gn and charge of 45.7. This will be for hunting
 

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That sounds like a very light load. I've loaded the old 06 for 45 years. I've found 180 grain bullets will do anything you need for deer, elk or black bear. Have always used h or IMR 4350. Easily get over 2700 fps. Getting ready to test Superformance and see what all the hype is. Welcome!
 

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Welcome OP. Others didn't read your post very closely. The sizing die bushing you need for your Match Grade dies will depend a bit on the cases and bullets you use. Measure the neck diameter with your bullet seated, then subtract 0.002”. This will be a good choice for the bushing, although you may want to experiment down a thousandth.

Most of us use the cartridge overall length when talking about bullet seating. Your bullet comparator is a more accurate tool but will cause some confusion as it did in this thread.

Headspace can be tricky, but to begin I’d suggest following the instructions which came with the die set. This will get you going and you can refine that later. You didn’t tell us what rifle you have - bolt, pump or auto - that can make a difference in your loading. Have fun!



.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Welcome OP. Others didn't read your post very closely. The sizing die bushing you need for your Match Grade dies will depend a bit on the cases and bullets you use. Measure the neck diameter with your bullet seated, then subtract 0.002”. This will be a good choice for the bushing, although you may want to experiment down a thousandth.

Most of us use the cartridge overall length when talking about bullet seating. Your bullet comparator is a more accurate tool but will cause some confusion as it did in this thread.

Headspace can be tricky, but to begin I’d suggest following the instructions which came with the die set. This will get you going and you can refine that later. You didn’t tell us what rifle you have - bolt, pump or auto - that can make a difference in your loading. Have fun!



.
My 06 is a Remington 700BDL bolt action.
 

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Sorry I didn't answer your bushing question. I've never used them. For hunting I resize just enough to fit my chamber with a full length sizer die. Never needed anything else. But I might "need" to try it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sorry I didn't answer your bushing question. I've never used them. For hunting I resize just enough to fit my chamber with a full length sizer die. Never needed anything else. But I might "need" to try it.
That’s ok. You gave me a tip on the IMR 4350 powder. I just might try that.
 

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My top powders for the 30-06 have always been H4350 or H4831, and 165 grain Hornady or Speer bullets. I use Hornady dies for the 30-06 but have never used any bushings, are your match grade dies neck sizing dies or full length case resizing dies? Also bolt action or semi-auto?
 

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If he's setting "headspace" (actually case head-to-shoulder dimension) as described in the first post, then they would have to be the FL version of the Hornady Match Grade bushing dies.
 

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I just looked up the brochure on your match grade Hornady dies. What a great idea that is. I didn't know they were making them. I've been loading the 30-06 for most of my life with RCBS dies and my main complaint was they size the neck down too far and work the brass too much and end up cracking the necks. What you have is the ability to size the neck just the right amount to hold the bullet properly and no more. .002 thousands grip should be plenty and a good place to start. One of the comments I read was to measure the neck over a seated bullet and see what the diameter is but first you have to size the case. Hmmmm How are you going to do that without a bushing? So somehow you have to borrow an old fashion sizing die from someone and size the case and seat it. Sounds like a lot of work to get the right sizing dies to me but in the end it would be worth it. I must have a half dozen different brands of 30-06 dies so it wouldn't be a problem for me.
 

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At least the Match Grade dies don't seem to have the horrible "Zip Spindle" that their Custom Grade dies come with. That thing is awful. I wound up buying a separate sizing die for my .204 because of it. I won't ever purchase another set of those.
 

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Hey ya all. I'm new to reloading and have a ton of questions but will keep it to one or two cause it can get overwhelming.
So I reloaded my first set of rounds for my Remington 30-06 using new Winchester brass, IMR 4451 powder, CCI large primer, and Hornady 200gr ELD-X.
So my first question is setting the headspace for reloading again. I have Hornady match grade sizing dies. How do I know what size bushing will I need? Any help and recommendations are always welcome. I have my bullet depth set at 2.766" to 2.756" and 45.7gn and 48.9gn of powder respectively according to Hornady hand book.
Your first question is setting headspace for reloading? What are you talking about? I mean what are you trying to do? As a guess I'd think your trying to fit your case's to your chamber. Bad news for you, you don't need anybody's match grade dies to do that. I've been doing that for a lot of years and I've never owned a match grade die! Are you loading for match shooting? Your for now out of your league! If you loading for hunting your going way beyond what you need. Making accurate ammo for hunting doesn't require near the accuracy ammo for match does. I do not now and have never loaded for match but I've had some rifle and do right now that are much more accurate than I need for hunting.

If your wanting to match the case to the rifle your using it in I don't think you'll find that in the manuals. What it is is a way of setting up the die to size the case. I've read several different ways of doing it, just depends on what works for you!

In my rifles with the first loadings I neck size with an FL die. After a couple rounds the case will no longer chamber at which point, with one case only, I start screwing the die down a little at a time till the case chamber's easily. If I feel the case rub at all the die goes down a bit more. That rub will be from the shoulder rubbing in the chamber as the case is then to perfect a fit. If your hunting you do not want to have to fool with hard chambering rounds. Lot of guys call it bumping the shoulder but in fact you cannot bump the shoulder without getting the whole case. If you could it would likely wrinkle the joint of the bottom of the shoulder and the case body enough to keep the case from chambering. Once you have the case so it chamber's easily you have a case that fit's the chamber properly. You could go with the case rubbing and call it a perfect fit but back to a hunting rifle, I would not want that in a hunting round, other's might.

Now just because you have what is called match grade dies does not insure you'll get match grade ammo no matter how hard you try. Little thing called bedding that usually get's in the way and to get more out of your rifle you either need to learn to do it of take and have it done. Then there's a little problem of shooting technique, yea that's gonna play into the picture also. Ever wonder why a hunter can't take out his 1/2" rifle and shoot a 1/2" group every time? Technique!
There's actually a lot more that goes into loading good match grade ammo than I could tell you about, it's never really interested me! Then too simply getting good hunting accuracy and calling it good never has either. That goes for most of us. A guy doesn't need a 3/4" load for hunting! You I think said you shoot at normal range's, begs to know what you call normal. Lot of guys think 400-500 yds is normal range and haven't got anywhere near the skill's shooting to pull that off intentionally! if the rifle can do it and the shooter can't, it's not normal. If the shooter can do it but the rifle can't, the rifle needs work!

For a guy just starting out I'd recommend not getting bushing dies. Of course the old hands that think everything is easy will poo paw that, it's simply a learning curve but it's also a learning curve well ahead of the beginner. You can't set up a regular FL die yet to fit a case to your chamber, throwing in a bushing die isn't gonna help! Something I always tell new guy's about reloading is get a good manual for the bullet you want to use. From there read the manual and really learn how to make a good round. Your not gonna do that right away and reading a bunch of different manuals and books ain't gonna get you there any faster. Know why? Every manual says pretty much the same exact thing using different words and that leaves the new guy to interpreting what he doesn't really understand! So the advice is after you've read the manuals, ask for help. Then you get to a place like this where all the help maybe be right but again you have to deal with the interpretation of the advice your getting. of what your reading and sometime it just is a bit out of whack for you! Go back to the one manual and work it out again. I say one manual as then you don't read the same thing said differently!

Your stuck, I think, at making a case fit your chamber with a match grade die whatever match grade means! You don't need those dies to make the case fit your chamber if that's what your trying to do. All the number's your using is confusing, over 50 years I've been doing this and I have never known how deep a bullet is seated by measuring anything! How can that be? get back to one manual and learn to make good ammo and when you do then learn to tweek it. Then when guys say the same thing in different ways you'll have some idea what their talking about! BTW, setting headspace is something you do with the case, bullet has nothing to do with that. Get the headspace set right for the rifle you have and seat the bullet out to far and you may not get the round in your magazine or the lands may stop you from chambering the round easy and jump pressure at the same time. The headspace is determined by how much room is in the chamber with the mty round chambered.

Excuse me if I'm to blunt. I've seen a lot of new reloader's skip a page here and there or load up with to much information all right but said in different ways and get to the point your at right now. Bullet seating depth has nothing to do with headspace!
 

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One of the comments I read was to measure the neck over a seated bullet and see what the diameter is but first you have to size the case. Hmmmm How are you going to do that without a bushing?
The usual way is to measure the diameter of the bullets you intend to load, then measure the thickness of the necks of the brass you intend to load in several places. Calculate the average neck thickness and multiply it by two, then add the bullet diameter. Finally, select a bushing that’s 2 thousandths of an inch less than that total. That’s a good place to start.
 

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Something about dies. Reloaders have been loading good ammo for a lot of years without collet dies. Imagine that! I have a couple set's of Lee collet dies and what I like is the thing's have no expander nipple and don't stretch the case coming back out of the die. Little spoke of fact about regular FL dies as they come from the factory. They are made to return a factory case to factory spec's when used as the manufacturer recommends, You don't need a collet in them. In fact for most factory rifles, no collet required! The exception may well be the very tight match grade chamber. As I understand that though a new reamer is used to cut the chamber and then the same reamer is used to cut the sizing die. Make's the demention of the sizing die just a bit smaller than the chamber. Then if the case neck needs attention I understand the procedure is to neck turn the case! The only advantage for me of a neck sizing die is not having the case expand and need trimming from pulling over the expanding nipple! If there is any other actual advantage it miss's me completely. Now pay attention. A factory FL die will return a factory case to factory spec's and the case will fit in every rifle with a good factory chamber the only exception's being the chamber or the die was cut wrong by the manufacturer. In the case of a large chamber that may meet factory spec's it may well be that using a collet will make some kind of difference that actually will amount to little more than tweeking the load, may help so little bit and may not! Imagine a company claiming all factory chamber must be exactly the same and making each die exactly the same. Case's would fit some rifles and not other's. I think this is all way ahead of where the OP is at with his reloading! Reloading and tweeking reloads are two different things. Reload with factory dies the way the manufacturer says to do it and unless there is a defect in the die, you'll likely never have a problem and getting down under 1" loads is no big trick. Reloader's have been doing it for more years than I have been alive! Seat the bullet the way the factory tells you to and you'll never have a problem and always be able to find loads more than accurate enough for hunting! Start tweeking bullet seating and you just might improve accuracy some and then again may not. I don't tweek much seating bullet's. I either set the case to fit in the magazine so long as it will chamber without hitting the land, or I seat the bullet just off the lands but I don't try measuring it or I seat the bullet to the base of the neck not intruding on the shoulder if it will still chamber without hitting the lands and fit in the magazine. easy way to do it all without measuring a thing but you probably won't read about it in a manual, the manual will only tell you how to make good ammo, not necessarily better ammo! Seven different guys can tell the same thing I just did or even add to it and you'll have to inturpert seven different things just to get there and the OP doesn't have the experience to do that yet. read the manual, learn to make good ammo and when you have a better understanding of what you want then ask the question. Now I'm not sure if he want's the case to fit his chamber better or to seat his bullet's different! two different things and I'm not sure he knows which one he wants.
 

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The op needs to begin at the beginning! No need to complicate things. Factory full length dies work just fine for hunting . I adjust them to fit my chamber and magazines and have several rifles that shoot well under an inch at 100 yards. Start at the beginning!
 
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