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Discussion Starter #1
I have just purchased a Marlin 336 LTD in 35 Remington and wanted to get some info on a couple of loads for the 185 gr BTB FNGC.  I have seen 2 loads listed with this bullet and RL-7.  One is with 28 grs and the other is with 34 grs.  What kind of velocity can I expect from these loads in an 18.5 inch barrel?  Also, I have heard that marlin 1894's need a larger diameter slug than normal.  Does this apply to 336's as well?  If anyone has any loads for 180 gr Hornady JHP-XTP or Remington 180 gr JHPs I would appreciate them also.  Thanks, James D.
 

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Hi, JFD:
  Do you want the XTP & JHP for varmints or deer?  I have some of the Remingtons loaded, but I haven't shot them yet, because my 100 yard backstop is still under water. I suspect the Remingtons won't stand .35 Remington velocities. I'll try to do an expansion test soon and let you know.

  The Speer 180 grain Flat Point is the best 180 grain deer bullet for the .35 Remington. 39.0 grains of 3031 is max. in my gun. It stays together at short range and usually expands on wetpack at 200 yards.

  Some older Marlins won't chamber a bullet that measures much over .350 ahead of the cannelure, unless it's deep seated. Mine won't chamber the BTB 200 grain FNGC, and a fellow over on Marlin Talk couldn't chamber the Sierra 200 grain Round Nose (mine will). Marshall recommends the 180 WLNGC for these short throated guns.

  I've noticed these wide variations in RL-7 loads. I guess you'll just have to work up carefully.

Bye
Jack
 

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JFD....There is nothing unsafe about the two .35 Remington loads I mentioned! The 34 grs of Re7 is Ken Waters load for 200 gr jacketed bullets! That load pushes them at 2100'/"+/- and is the standard load used down here with 200 gr Rem CL bullets. One powder measure was set up for that weight, so we loaded the BTB 185 gr FNGC know it would be safe with the lighter cast bullets! The bullets were sized .358" and had been used to test the new BTB lube in 6" S&W 686 @ plus 1300'/" with 16 grs WW296/H110 (Marshall's favotite load). This 34 grs of Re7 out of the 22" Remington's barrel shot pretty good groups with minimum lead wash....and that's what we wanted to see! We dropped back to the Lee Dipper that dropped 28.2 grs of Re7 and found that load grouped as tight as the 200 gr jacketed load. With in 185 crimped in the groove with a Lee collet crimper, the bullet was slightly marked by the lands. About what I like when shooting cast. This is a Remington Mod 141 pump in excellent condition with a perfect barrel. Someone else will have to tell you about the Marlins.I would estimate the 34 grs of Re7 would be pushing the BTB 185 gr well over 2000'/", which is fast. The 28.2 gr maybe 2000'/". From what I have seen the 185 do, I would shoot a deer or hog in a heartbeat! What all this proves is you can push a BTB alloy bullet, with the new lube, fast!!!!
Best Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the load info, I really appreciate it.  Now I just need to do is get some RL-7 and wait for my rifle to arrive.  James D.
 

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Hi, Guys:
  I got tired of doing chores so I did a quicky expansion test on the Remington 180 grain JHP. I fired 1 bullet into water filled 10 liter (2.64 US gal.) plastic spray (herbicide) jugs which are 7 1/2" wide. The result was an almost total blow-up.

  The load was 36.0 grains of IMR 3031, Winchester WLR primer and W-W SUPER case.  Estimated velocity is 2000-2100 fps. Range was 10 yards. It's too windy to set up the Chrony.

  The first jug blew up but the bullet barely made it into the second jug. The plastic snapped back enough to almost seal the hole and I didn't think it had penetrated the jug at first, since everything was drenched by water from the first jug. The jugs were touching.

  The jacket and core separated, but went into the second jug through the same hole. The jacket was folded back completely and weighed 22.5 grains. The core weighed 50.5 grains and is about .6" in diameter. That's about 40% retained weight.  

  A Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt will penetrate the 4th jug and retain about 87% of it's weight under the same conditions.

  I've got to try that Re7, Mr. Gates.


Bye
Jack      
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Another question on bullets.  I prefer to work up 2 loads for all of my rifles. One is a full power hunting load and the other is a reduced power load for plinking, small game and to save wear and tear on the rifle.  If you had to choose ONE bullet for a full power load for deer and hog would it be the BTB 185 gr FNGC, 200 gr Remington SPCL or some other weight/brand?  This is if the accuracy of each bullet is roughly equal.  Once again any info to help speed up my learning curve on this round is appreciated (no use re-inventing the wheel <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->)  Thanks again, James D.
 

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Jack....Very interesting on the Rem.180 gr bullet. It just goes to show you what I have said about all these pictures of peferct mushroomed bullets....It's BS! When a bullet reaches a certian velocity impact limit it goes to pieces! That same bullet, with a factory load, holds together and penetrates great in the hanfguns and rifles chambered for .357 Mag. The word has come back to me from South Florida that the Hornady 180 HP/XTP is looking real good. As of yet I don't know what they are loading it at. I want to find out so the boys, during our tests, can compare it against our control load of 16 grs WW296/H110 and the BTB 185 FNGC is the handguns.
Now...As far as IMR3031 is concerned. If I could have only one powder for all rifle applications, it most likely be IMR3031. The only reason we switched over to RE7 for the .35 Rem is the tests that both Layne Simpson and Ken Waters did. For some reason it seems to be the most accurate load. I always thought it was a little on the fast side for 200 gr bullets, but that didn't pan out. They shot the 200 gr Rem CL with 37 grs of IMR for a velocity of 2080'/" in a 20" barrel at 34,000 psi. Well under the agreed working pressure of 40,000 psi for the Marlin 336 series. I feel that 34 grs of Re7, still under the 40,000 psi @ 2185'/" (20" barrel) is as hot as I want to go. We did run up some 45,000 psi loads in a Rem.760 with the Speer 180 gr spitzer, but accuracy fell off above 40,000 psi. Going back down to the 34 grs of Re7 in the Rem.760 with a 4X scope...it shot just as good a groups as any other caliber in that rifle.
Best Regards, James    Oh Yes, The "new" Hornady 200 still does not expand as we want it!....jcg
 

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There is also a Hornady 158 gr. XTP 358 FP bullet. Looks something like the HP XTP but has a beefier nose. I think it's rated for 1800+ velocities.


Regards,

:cool:
 

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Evening, Gents:
  I've got the 158 gr. FP/XTP here. It's rather peculiar looking, with a flat nose about 1/4" across and a 1/8" hole in the middle about 1/16" deep, and 6 nose slits.  I'll try to load up a few to-night.

  OK, JFD, Marshall's months behind on his orders. Lord willing those extensive medical tests come back negative!! So I'd check out the Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt and the 180 grain Speer Flat Point in your rifle now, and see which your rifle prefers. The Speer expands almost as well as the Remington and does shoot flatter. The Sierra 200 grain Round Nose is a bit too tough for the .35 Remington's velocity and the Hornady is worse.

  Check your Marlin for a short throat by seating a Core-Lokt out 1/10" past the cannelure and seeing if it will chamber. Don't force it, just drop it in. If it doesn't, forget the 185FNGC. It's full diameter almost as far ahead of the cannelure as the 200 FNGC. Marshall told me the 180 WLNGC will work. I should have asked him about the 210 LFNGC.

  Mr. Gates should be done his hog tests by the time you have your Marlin sorted out with the jacketed bullets. Then we'll all know what to do next.

  As far as sizing goes, a Core-Lokt runs about .359" and barely touches the bottom of the grooves in my rifle. See if you can recover one and measure the base. Marshall figured  .3595" was about right for me.

  My plinking load is 10.0 grains of Red Dot behind a Remington 158 grain JHP. It's not too accurate and the point of impact shifts too much. However, the recoil is about right for the 11 and 12 year olds in our Hunter Safety classes. Still have some work to do on this one.

  The point of impact of my rifle abruptly drops about 4 inches at 100 yards if I back the load off too much. This happens at about 34.0 grains of 3031, so I don't worry about it on cold mornings with my top load of 37.5 grains. (Core-Lokt, Remington case, Winchester WLP primer.) However, it happens 1 grain under max with 4320. Just for curiousity's sake, I split the difference and got a 5" vertical spread.

Bye for now
Jack
 

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JFD.....All these answers are right on the button!! To answer your question on what I thought would be the best full power load...As much as I like the BTB .358" bullet in the handgun, and it is interesting in the rifle, I would have to have the tried and true Rem. 200 gr CL....period! I think the factory load's velocity can be improved on, but I would still want that bullet.
However, I can't agree with those who say do not use a throat reamer on those rifles with a short throat or those shooters who want to use cast bullets. I have used throat reamers for years made by JGS in Coo Bay. I very much like the way they set up the leades. With an extension handle, is is very simple to touch up the throat and leades using a loaded round as a guide. The only care that must be used is to use a firm slow turn so the reamer does not chatter. When the rifle will accept the loaded round, about 10 tuens on the reamer backwards will burnish your work.
Best Regards To All, James
 

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Good Morning, Gents:
  First of all, I reweighed the Remington 180 gr. JHP remnants with my bifocals on. The core weighed 65.2 grains, not 50.5, and the jacket weighed 22.0 grains. Total weight retention is 49%. It's still not a deer bullet at 2100 fps.

  Now for the Hornady .357" 158 gr. FP/XTP. Same conditions as before. At an estimated 2100 fps., the bullet blew up the first jug and penetrated the second. It hit the back of the second jug hard enough to dint the third jug, which the Remington didn't do.  The core weighed 76.1 grains and the jacket weighed 31.2 grains for a weight retention of 68%.

  Hornady gives a minimum velocity of 1175 fps. 8.5 grains of Red Dot averages about 1200 fps, but isn't as consistent the 10.0 grain load. At this velocity, the bullet penetrated the seventh jug and did not expand. The first jug wan't even split open.

Bye for now
Jack
 

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Jack,

Another interesting bullet is the Rem. 150 grain Spire Point Core-Lokt. This was made for I think, the Rem. Bolt gun or the XP 100 in 35 Rem.

I have heard that it works well on Deer and Hogs but the little Sherman Tanks Mr. Gates shoots at down there in FLA make me want to reconsider the Hog end of it.

I have some that I've shot at 2100 FPS plus out of my 12" Hunter bbl. pistol with excellent accuracy. Never did any expansion testing though.

Ah! another project.

Regards,

:cool:
 
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