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For love of the PCC

981 Views 24 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  crooked creek
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Over the years I have accidentally ended up with, what I think, is a cool PCC collection. Clearly I'm into older guns, so no AR's for me.

Of the 4 I think my favorite will always be my first love...the M1 Carbine. It was one of the first rifles I bought with my own money, and since I was working as a gunsmith for a small arms importer, I got to pick from 11,000 carbines to find my little carbine.

I have also learned that back in the day, the .22lr was a VERY good ballistic analogue for the pistol length WCF cartridges. The trajectories are close enough out to about 150 yards, that most any good hand with a .22lr could be capable of an offhand hit at 150 yards pretty easy with a WCF centerfire at standard velocities.

Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Shotgun


Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory
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I don't see a 6PPC in the bunch! I was expecting pink plastic BR rifles! Dang Dyslexia takes the nuf out of life.
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I'm starting to come around to the realization that the M-1 Carbine may be the best home defense carbine currently available.... especially with softpoint/hollowpoint bullets. This after 40 yrs of being a firearms enthusiast.
I keep a Carbine around with plenty of ammo for the kids to step up from a .22.
Fun for all ages is a Carbine.
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I don't see a 6PPC in the bunch! I was expecting pink plastic BR rifles! Dang Dyslexia takes the nuf out of life.
My benchrest rifle pre-dated the PPC dominance, it was a Shilen DGA in .222 and it was bright blue, with white racing stripes. I got that bug out of my system almost 30 years ago.
I'm starting to come around to the realization that the M-1 Carbine may be the best home defense carbine currently available.... especially with softpoint/hollowpoint bullets. This after 40 yrs of being a firearms enthusiast.
Just depends on your definition of “best” but the M1 Carbine with soft points or JHP’s is very effective inside 150 yards. Indoors, if you miss keep in mind that the .30 Carbine generally tends to have greater barrier penetration inside 100 yards than the vast majority of 5.56. The Winchester JHP is WAY better than you would think it was (not sure if they still make it), but I consider it a good deal better than the Hornady. I have never used the Cor-Bon load, but it looks rather promising. I have leveled a few yotes with the Winchester and the Corbon, but the Winchester was a bit more impressive. However, if you need to shoot through a barrier, the Hornady or Cor-Bon may be a better choice. But inside, or immediately around the house, any of the expanding .30 Carbine rounds will be very effective.
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I keep a Carbine around with plenty of ammo for the kids to step up from a .22.
Fun for all ages is a Carbine.
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like to shoot an M1 Carbine. My Carbine is a big favorite with my kids and when I’m gone I’m sure there will be a family Holy War over who get’s dad’s M1.
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Over the years I have accidentally ended up with, what I think, is a cool PCC collection. Clearly I'm into older guns, so no AR's for me.

Of the 4 I think my favorite will always be my first love...the M1 Carbine. It was one of the first rifles I bought with my own money, and since I was working as a gunsmith for a small arms importer, I got to pick from 11,000 carbines to find my little carbine.

I have also learned that back in the day, the .22lr was a VERY good ballistic analogue for the pistol length WCF cartridges. The trajectories are close enough out to about 150 yards, that most any good hand with a .22lr could be capable of an offhand hit at 150 yards pretty easy with a WCF centerfire at standard velocities.

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View attachment 108130
I love the M1 carbine too, and that might be the prettiest stock on one I’ve ever seen.
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I'm starting to come around to the realization that the M-1 Carbine may be the best home defense carbine currently available.... especially with softpoint/hollowpoint bullets. This after 40 yrs of being a firearms enthusiast.
If you think it is good with soft points, Try it with Hornady 90 grain XTP bullets
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Just depends on your definition of “best” but the M1 Carbine with soft points or JHP’s is very effective inside 150 yards. Indoors, if you miss keep in mind that the .30 Carbine generally tends to have greater barrier penetration inside 100 yards than the vast majority of 5.56.
I'm not worried about barrier penetrations in my suburban/rural hood. Houses are on 1.0+ acre lots, so I would not be shooting through an adjacent Apartment/Duplex/Townhome wall. If I can't hit a human debris target inside of 30 feet with the carbine, then I'll be selling it off. From point A to point B on my property, the longest distance would be about 150 yards.

If there were hostiles that far out, I might be tempted to drag out the mini-30 with LPVO red dot optic on it.
I love the M1 carbine too, and that might be the prettiest stock on one I’ve ever seen.
The later pot bellied M2 birch stocks on reworked M1s are not as valued by collectors, but many of them have some nice tiger stripe figure in them. That one is way better than most.

The birch M2 stock on the M1 at the top is pretty average tiger stripe wise, and you can see the difference between the slightly deeper/stronger M2 pattern birch stock compared to the slimmer M1 walnut stock.

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I'm starting to come around to the realization that the M-1 Carbine may be the best home defense carbine currently available.... especially with softpoint/hollowpoint bullets. This after 40 yrs of being a firearms enthusiast.
I agree. It was after all designed as a personal defense weapon to substitute for the 1911 with rear area and support troops who for the most part could not hit the broad side of a barn with the 1911, let alone hit an enemy combatant at 100 yards with a 1911.

In the 1960s and 1970s the M1 carbine was popular for use as a patrol rifle for law enforcement officers, particularly rural law enforcement officers.

However I recall in the mid 1970s starting to see more articles in gun rags criticizing it as lacking stopping power. They rejuvenated the myth about the .30 M1 carbine round not penetrating ice encrusted Chinese padded cotton coats during the Korean War. They usually doubled down by pointing out it wasn’t legal for deer hunting in many states due to having just a few foot pounds less than 1000 ft pounds of energy.

But as always many if not most of those articles were written to appeal to and support advertisers who wanted to sell more modern alternatives like the AR-15, Mini 14 and the Ruger .44 Carbine.

Admittedly with lots of surplus ball ammo still floating around there also wasn’t much incentive for producing good expanding bullet loads for the M1 carbine and given the 1000 ft pound restriction. Most of those that were available were designed for small game and predators rather than deer.

Still, even though it was technically a Varmint bullet, the discontinued Hornady 100 gr short jacket soft nose bullet gave impressive expansion and penetration adequate for two legged threats.

I lamented the passing of the 100 gr short jacket when Hornady discontinued it. However, I’ve gotten similarly superb results with the 110 gr S&B factory load with 16-18” penetration and expansion around .6”. That’s actually much more impressive expansion than I got with the Hornady 110 gr FTX (around .45”).

With three M1 carbines in the safe and around 30 GI surplus magazines (bought back when they were dirt cheap), I’m still interested in finding a readily available bullet for hand loading That will also work well as a do everything plinking to personal defense load.

I’m interested in the Hornady 90 gr XTP, but it’s being marketed as a handgun bullet and as an action shooting bullet that is not optimized for expansion. But it will be interesting to see what it does at carbine velocities.
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I don't see a 6PPC in the bunch! I was expecting pink plastic BR rifles! Dang Dyslexia takes the nuf out of life.
I looked right past it too! Problem is, I'm still struggling with PCC, I'm clueless (??)!
The .30 carbine round is really a magnum .30 pistol round as the case is the same length as the .357 magnum. With soft points it is very effective as they found on the New York stake out unit in the late 60's.
I'm still struggling with PCC, I'm clueless (??)!

Pistol Caliber Carbines
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Pistol Caliber Carbines
Thanks...never to old to learn!
I 'acquired' (not issued!) an M1 Carbine in Vietnam, and kept it handy, laying on the passenger side seat of my jeep, on my drive through the streets of Saigon on the way to and from night shift work on Tan Son Nhut. It was easier to pick up and use one handed, than trying to wrestle in a jeep with my assigned (and huge by comparison) M14. That worked for a few months, until the Company CO got wind of my 'contraband' and told me to get rid of it. Traded it for a pristine AK47 (didn't ask where it came from), that I also had to give up when discharge time came, they wouldn't let me bring it home.
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If I had a wife or girlfriend (may the two never meet), or adolescent child of either gender who had no problem with shooting guns, but was unwilling/unable to practice enough to be skilled with a sidearm, I think a PCC would be all but made-to-order for such people.
Depending on the caliber, the PCC offers "okay" to "WONDERFUL" fight-stopping performance, 8 to 20 rounds quick, low to non-existent recoil, rapid reloads, and sufficient accuracy to be a threat to, or fend off one from others, out to 50 yards, minimum.
In a household under threat, the more skilled shooters situate the PCC shooters in a (relatively) safe corner, tell them not to move, and to shoot anyone who is not wearing a badge or is recognized as family/friendlies. IDEALLY, the more skilled shooter(s) in the house will take care of things until the threat is neutralized or the constabulary arrives. The PCC shooter should never really have to use their weapon, but if the unthinkable happens, there's still recourse for the innocent.
In a traveling situation, the PCC offers less power per unit bulk than either a pistol OR a short rifle, but controllability enables hits, and hits are the major decider of conflict outcomes. Since other more skilled companions would likely address and "repel boarders" first, however, the PCC keeps its owner out of trouble if the "boarders" either get lucky, or try an "end run". Being armed and travelling armed are much like parachutes. Arming the less skilled with a PCC could be seen as providing them with a parachute (the presence of other more skilled and highly motivated defenders) AND a giant trampoline (the PCC).
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Pistol Caliber Carbines
As an OG ('Old Guy'), what is the modern/current 'need' to use acronyms for just about anything being discussed? Are we really that short of time, that we have to make our communications a 'guessing game' with seemingly every subject discussed? Maybe, it's just being 'hip', and I ain't 'hip'!
I can just imagine the conversation between husband and wife in 1893, when Hubby says "I'm going to grab my PCC (Win. '73 or '92) from behind the door and go out to get us something for dinner."!o_O:unsure::confused::sleep:;):)
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As an OG ('Old Guy'), what is the modern/current 'need' to use acronyms for just about anything being discussed?
One may be tempted to suggest that the "old guys" are who started it.
The PWA under the 'New Deal', being but one example of brevity being used since long before modern/current times.😉😉
One may be tempted to suggest that the "old guys" are who started it.
The PWA under the 'New Deal', being but one example of brevity being used since long before modern/current times.😉😉
Perhaps, but I've learned that my trying to be 'hip' can get you unexpected reactions to acronyms that may have benefited by more thorough thought before posting. We have an old quarry nearby, that has a boat launch ramp that is at times made available to the public. I posted an acronym to a buddy to see if he would like to join me for the evening. It went like this: "Let's Go Boating Tonight, Quarry Is Available ? The acronym prompted mixed reaction!:oops:o_O:eek::D

Old Guys stuff: The old TWA airlines question from the stewardess's to male passengers: Would you like some Trans World Airlines Tea?
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