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Have been trying to find some consistency with 3031 and 180gr speer bullets to no avail.  I have an older Speer manual that lists loads from 38 to 42 grains for that bullet.  I just read some of Mr. Gates older posts and discovered that he doesn't load that hot.  Needless to say, I got to thinking maybe that is where my trouble is.  You see I have no chrono. so I go by how they print on paper to find consistency and accuracy.  I have tried loads from 38 all the way up to 42 with the same results.  Fliers!!  I doesn't even matter whether I rapid fire or let the barrel completely cool between shots.  From what I have read 3031 is a great powder for the 35,  so I am about to pull my hair out (if I had any left) over this.  Any suggestions are welcome.
 

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Indeed.....There are quite a few .35 Remington shooters here on the forum. I tested the Speer 180 years ago in a Rem. 670 with some rather hot loads . I never was able to get the kind of accuracy I wanted with that bullet. I switched to Re7 and the Remington Core-Lok (sp) and have stayed with a load of 34 grs for some years. In the Rem. 141 that load chronos at around 2100 fps. With Beartooth 180's, 32 grs run a little over 2300 fps. I did try some of the new Hornady 200 gr's that were supposed to have a new jacket, but I don't think they expand well at .35 Rem velocities. Both Layne Simpson and Ken Waters did some very good work on the .35 Remington. I don't think either was impressed with the 180 Speer. We have killed a lot of hogs and deer with that tried and true Rem. 200 gr CL and a few with the Beartooth 180..I can really say they are the best to go with. Best Regards, James
 

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Mike....After the last post, I dug out some notes I had from years ago sent me by Ken Waters. In them I found where he had a pressure test done on the .35 Rem with the 180 Speer....with 37 grs of IMR 3031 @ 34,000 psi in a 20" barrel.Both Ken Waters and Layne Simpsom felt 40,000 psi was top pressure in the Marlin and Rem. 141, however I have found that to be a little high. I much prefer 38,000 psi. Now...knowing that for each % of powder in the IMR line, one get that % increase in velocity, but double that % in presure...I would be careful going as high as you are going. Otherwords...to go to 38,000 psi, it would be an increase of 12% pressure...which would give a 6% increase in powder or a max, max of 41 grs of IMR 3031.
best Regards, James



<!--EDIT|James Gates|Mar. 05 2002,04:43-->
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was posting this morning because I realized that I forgot to mention that I was refering to 35rem, but I should have known that you would figure that out.  I am not real sure by your post whether you feel it's the nature of the bullet or the fact that I have obviously overcharged.  I am by no means partial to this bullet, it just happened to be what was available when I started this.  I want accuracy first and formost, not velocity.  I had a fair amount of luck with 4320 and the speer bullet and thought that " well if I use 3031, I'll really be able to drive tacks" and when that didn't happen I was....needless to say a little disappointed.  Oh, and thank you again for taking time to answer.
 

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Hi, Mike:
    Best you consider those old Speer manuals history.  The loads were worked up without pressure testing equipment and current Canadian made IMR powder is faster than the US made DuPont powder Speer used back then.  Speer #7 lists 44.0 grains of DuPont 4895 as max and Speer #11 lists 37.0 grains of IMR 4895 as max with the 180 in the .35 Remington.  Speer #11 doesn't list 3031, unfortunately.

   The 180 Speer might be a bit more accurate in my Marlin than the 200 grain Core-Lokt, but both go an 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" at a 100 yards. That's with 3031.  I'd try the old standard load of 36.0 grains of 3031 behind the Core-Lokt, working up to IMR's 37.5 grain max.
http://www.imrpowder.com/rifle/35r_1_data.html

    If you can't get results with the 3031 or 4320 you have, try Mr. Gates' RL-7, Marshall's H335 or IMR 4895.  You can't get enough 4064 into the case for a decent load and H322 doesn't fill the case and is position sensitive in my experience.  Every gun has it's own taste in bullets and powders, sometimes primers too.  I haven't tested magnum primers in the .35, but I'd think it's too small a case for them with the stick powders.  BTW, you didn't mention what rifle and primer you were using.

   Limited wetpack testing showed that the Core-Lokt will expand at 200 yards and the 180 Speer usually will.  The 200 Sierra RN will expand at 100, but not at 150. The nose of the Sierra flattened at 150 and likely would work like a WFN or OWC on anything but a rib shot.  Earlier Hornady's than Mr. Gates (no nose slits) won't expand at 100 yards.  All perform nicely at 20 yards.  The Speer's jacket tends to fold back resulting in a smaller frontal area than the Core-Lokt's wide mushroom.  It seem like its a slow opener, based on the wetpack test and a fox and a racoon that didn't drop in their tracks.  The Core-Lokt anchors things. The Speer does shoot flatter.  The Core-Lokt is my first choice, but I've got a new box of Speers here.

Bye
Jack



<!--EDIT|Jack Monteith|Mar. 07 2002,23:26-->
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jack,
I am also using a Marlin. (336cs) and so far I have only used CCI 200 primers.  I believe I will stay with 4320 for the speer bullets for now, or maybe even try some of the Re7 that Mr. Gates mentions.  I think I will burn up the rest of this 3031 behind some 125gr. JHP pistol bullets that I have.  At rifle velocities they kinda' act like ballistic tips and accuracy isn't that bad.  I will be placing an order for the 200gr core-lokt bullets soon.  Thanks for the input.
 
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