[Marshall Stanton]

Thought since hunting seasons are winding down for big game, we might post some fun loads for the off-season!

A couple of my favorites are here:

.38 Spcl. .358"-160g FNBB/6.2g AA #5/WSPP/Any Brass/+P Load/1200 fps in Carbines Very accurate in both carbines and revolvers... haven't chonographed revolvers.

.44 Mag .44-240g WFNPB/10.0g Universal Clays/WLPP/Any Brass/1050 fps Nice mild load, very accurate.

.30-30 .30-115g FNPB/7.0g Blue Dot/Any Lg Rifle Primer/Any Brass/1200-1300 fps duplicates .32-20 factory load-very accurate, very fun!

.30-06 .30-115g FNPB/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass 1200 fps load that is about as quiet as .22 mag., accurate and inexpensive!

.30-06 .30-145g FNGC/30.0g H4227/Any Primer/Any Brass.  Very accurate load of about 2000 fps that is very pleasant to shoot, low pressure and very effective large varmit load!

.223 Remington/.22-60g SPGC/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass/2000 fps/ Duplicates .22 Magnum load.  Very accurate in most guns with 1:10" or faster rifling, fairly quiet, and fun to shoot.  Very effective on large varmints.

These are just a few of my favorite off-season loads.

How about others?  What do you shoot in your big guns to plink?

Blessings for fun in a new year!

God Bless,

Marshall

 

[Walt]

  Dear Marshall,
        Do you use a filler of some kind in the rifle loads?
 I like to use dacron fiber. A little dab will do.
 I like the thought of cast bullets in the 30-06.
                                                  Have a great day,
                                                             Walt

 

[Marshall Stanton]

Walt,

I only use fillers in cases of .30-06 class and larger when dealing with fast pistol powders, and then only if charges are under 15 grains.

My standard filler for these purposes (when I do use them) is to use 1/4" polyester quilt batting, 1" squares cut with scissors.  This stuff is relatively inexpensive and available wherever fabric yardage is sold.  simply roll out the batting, and it is very uniform in thickness, cut your squares with scissors, and insert into your bottleneck rifle cases with the blunt end of a crochet hook (they come in many diameters to fit many calibers of interest), pushing them down on top of the powder charge.  Once in place they don't move, and I've found the cut squares of batting to be extremely uniform in weight if cut carefully.

Hope this helps!

God Bless, and thanks for the question, I should have included this info in the post!

Marshall

 

[malamute]

small game loads....

Good topic Marshall! I use round ball loads in 45/70 for small stuff. I believe about 9 gr unique w/ dacron pillow stuffing filler. quiet and effective at short range(30 yds.) I just got some of the old "collar button" 140 gr bullets to try. Should be even better. .410 shells do OK in the 45/70 for very close range (10-15feet) on rattlesnakes, though I load shot loads in the regular case (45/70) also. The regular case loads are easier to extract. Use about 9-10 gr unique, wonder wad or felt wad, fill case with #9 shot, seat gas check upside down on shot and crimp. You can use the same procedure in 45 colt case, but w/ 6 gr unique for your revolver.

I use similar loads for 30/30 as you, very accurate! (6 1/2 to 7 1/2 gr unique)

The 200 gr flat point 33 win. bullet from hornaday works well in the 338 mag at about 1400-1600fps. This load cut a 4 shot group of about 1/2" @ 30 yds outside to outside edge of group. 4756? powder. (the reduced load powder) These are from memory, I'm away from home.

The sub-caliber adapters work well, 30/30-32acp, quiet and accurate to 30 yds or so. Gotta push the empty out (of the adapter) with a stick or rod though. The guy in Anchorage (Ace) will or can make an adapter for about anything you can dream up that is compatible.

1-28, I just re-read your post, the 44 load got by me. I use 9gr unique in 44 mag case with 240 gr swc. As you said, it makes a great general shooting load. I've probably shot more of these loads through my 29's and Rugers than anything else. Flattens trajectory out compared to 44 spec loads. Makes 300 yd shooting much more rewarding.
This charge with 200 gr rnfp in the Browning 44 carbine makes a great plinker-cowboy load. Very similar to the original 44/40 loads. Have also loaded a few round balls for 44, but have not shot them enough to give a good opinion of them.

I like to load small game/reduced loads for all my big guns, about 1500 feet velocity (or less) with a med weight bullet. I always use a bullet that is different (like a flat point for a cal that usually has spitzers)and immediatly identifiable, so I don't make a mistake when hunting larger animals. I use a bit of pillow stuffing for all my reduced (rifle) loads. Seems to burn more consistantly.

 

[91Carcano]

Thanks for starting a thread on my most recent project, Marshall!
I've been attempting, with only moderate success, to work up a plinking and small game load for use in my Krag. I've been trying to use the little Lyman 77-grain .312" slugs I cast for my .32ACP. They actually average 81 grains from WW. I hand-lube them with LBT Blue and size them in a Lee .311" (really .3107") sizer to fit my rifle's actual .310" groove.
Recoil and noise of such a dainty bullet at less than 2000 fps is, or course, negligible.
Powder selection is my current focus.
5744: despite its reputation among Cowboy Action shooters and Accurate's advertising and the recommendations of an old, dear friend who is employed by Laser-Cast; I have never had good results from 5744, even when I tried magnum primers and filler. I haven't tried it again with this particular bullet but I've had no reason to.
4227: IMR-4227 worked better than H-4227. I'm going to revisit H-4227 because I couldn't find my chrony. (I'd put it away while preparing for deer hunting and couldn't remember where.)
4759: despite its sterling reputation for propelling cast bullets, it obviously didn't do as well as 4227. Also 4759 didn't begin to burn uniformly until well in excess of 1600 fps. (Best was 2000 fps and I still didn't see any leading altho I know it's not far away from some other tests.)
4064: IMR-4064 has given me the best results although it's too position-sensitive for small game hunting. I see considerable vertical stringing due to velocity variations.
20.0 gr 4064 => 1460 fps, avg; 283.1 ES; 90.55 SD
22.8 gr 4064 => 1678 fps, avg; 328.4 ES; 85.44 SD
This numbers speak for themselves, not particularly good but I may be expecting too much.
3031: I think I'll try ~21 grains of IMR-3031 next because Richard Lee recommended it for reduced loads in his load manual.

Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
91

 

[Sasquatch]

Thought since hunting seasons are winding down for big game, we might post some fun loads for the off-season!

A couple of my favorites are here:

...

.30-06 .30-115g FNPB/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass 1200 fps load that is about as quiet as .22 mag., accurate and inexpensive!

.30-06 .30-145g FNGC/30.0g H4227/Any Primer/Any Brass.  Very accurate load of about 2000 fps that is very pleasant to shoot, low pressure and very effective large varmit load!

.223 Remington/.22-60g SPGC/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass/2000 fps/ Duplicates .22 Magnum load.  Very accurate in most guns with 1:10" or faster rifling, fairly quiet, and fun to shoot.  Very effective on large varmints.

...

VERY interested in these.

Been told that .22mag is too little gun for coyotes, but .223 is too loud. .22Hornet is OK, but if I could download a 30-06 or .223 to somewhere between .22mag and .22hornet loudness and power for killing coyotes, that would be awesome, since these guns are more available, and could have other uses.

If you have anything else to add here, I'd be most interested. Also, faint memory has me thinking of blue dot powder and large pistol primers, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Marshall Stanton]

Sasquatch,

Also recently been playing with more .30-06 loads in the off season. Have found another that shoots superbly in four different 06's in our stables.

BTB .310"-135gSPGC/24.0g 2400/CCI 200/Win Brass

This is the same bullet designed for the 7.62x39's, and is of stitzer design.... with the above load it will group under an inch with any of four rifles at 75 yards.... two of those guns having only aperture sights! Been extremely cold and overcast here, so haven't chronographed this load yet, but am thinking its between 1800 and 2000 fps. With anealled noses this load has proven to be very detrimental to a couple coyote's health Again, this load is about the same noise factor as a .22 magnum!

Tried the same load with the 140gFNGC and had very similar results.... it's just that the SP design of the 135's feeds so nicely in those old Springfield 03's, and are great fun in these old "sporterized" rifles from a bygone age. Fun stuff.

God Bless,

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch,

Also recently been playing with more .30-06 loads in the off season. Have found another that shoots superbly in four different 06's in our stables.

BTB .310"-135gSPGC/24.0g 2400/CCI 200/Win Brass

This is the same bullet designed for the 7.62x39's, and is of stitzer design.... with the above load it will group under an inch with any of four rifles at 75 yards.... two of those guns having only aperture sights! Been extremely cold and overcast here, so haven't chronographed this load yet, but am thinking its between 1800 and 2000 fps. With anealled noses this load has proven to be very detrimental to a couple coyote's health Again, this load is about the same noise factor as a .22 magnum!

Tried the same load with the 140gFNGC and had very similar results.... it's just that the SP design of the 135's feeds so nicely in those old Springfield 03's, and are great fun in these old "sporterized" rifles from a bygone age. Fun stuff.

God Bless,

All I can say is "WOW!"!

30-06 with .22 Mag noise?

Nice, want more details, pictures.

 

[horseman 1]

I use a lee 150 grain fp with the gas check shank removed. It weighs in at 155 grains sized and lubed. In a 30 30 it shoots great with 15 grains of IMR or H 4227. It also does well with 9.5 of unique. It should do well in any 30 cal with the right powder charge.

 

[bowtek]

I don't reload so I can't offer any recipes here. As far as favorite's for small game, I'm in the processing of buying a .357 Mag lever action rifle and I can't wait to take it bunny hunting in heavy brush. It's sure to be fast shooting and a good time!

 

[wyonative]

I'd be interested in any reduced loads for the 444 Marlin using a 240 gr. cast bullet. Again, would you use a filler?

 

[Marshall Stanton]

Hmmmmm..... bet we can convert you to a handloader once you start popping primers in that little levergun!

God Bless,

 

[Carwi]

I don't reload so I can't offer any recipes here. As far as favorite's for small game, I'm in the processing of buying a .357 Mag lever action rifle and I can't wait to take it bunny hunting in heavy brush. It's sure to be fast shooting and a good time!

You can't beat a fine .357 carbine loaded with quality hard cast bullets loaded mildly to hunt bunnies!! It sure is a blast and does better than any .22 when used in brush. Marshall's suggestion is fantastic although I prefer to load mine in .357 Mag brass just to keep from getting a fouling ring in my chamber from using 38 brass. What you esentially have is a 22 on steroids and is just as cheap to shoot if you can get into loading your own sometime. You can also use that .357 to hunt deer up to 100yds too you know with full power loads!!

 

[Carwi]

Marshall,

Would you suggest using your .224 60gr bullets in a .22 Hornet? I have a Ruger #1 with a 1-14" twist and have considered doing so. I don't know if it would stabilize though? It looks like it would be a nice bullet to punch .22 holes in and out with minimal pelt damage. Any load suggestion?

 

[ribbonstone]

Not who you aimed at, but have done a good bit of .22Hornet cast bullet loading.

With the 1:14 twist, you have a fighting chance for the 60gr. bullets to stabilize...OAL more improitant than actual weight.

Know from trials that a 1:16 twist will stabilize anything up to .55" long even at .22LR velocity...longer than that, and it won't. In jacketed format, that pretty much a 45gr. limit for a shapely pointed bullet...in cast, the Lyman #225414 (55gr.) is the upper limit (the flat nose seems to help).

HAve a miss-cut #255462 mold...they cut the gas check base too long...that thowns a 66gr. bullet from the alloy at hand. NO GO in a 1:16twist...stable in a 1:14 twist but inaccurate until driven over 1800fps.

So...lathed the bullets. Once they were .60", were shooting well from the 1:14 at 1000-1100fps. Once they were .53", were shooting well from the 1:16 twist at the same speed. Flipping them arround and making full wad cutters doesn't do a think for thaier ranging, but they smack small game down.

Simplest lite-load is 2.0gr. of Red Dot (1050fps)...no gas check needed, or accuracy differnce detected at these speeds.
------------
ANd I have to add...really dislike the cost of gas checks in .224"...
------
Beartooth's 60gr. bullet's length is listed in the "details" section. With a 1:14 twist, wouldn't expect wonders at .22LR speeds...at .22mag. speeds,expect it would work in a 1:14. Marshal, or anyone else who has used that one at these near-sonic speeds will have to comment...but generally, if I'm looking to shoot in the 1000-1200fps range, will take a shorter bullet option.

 

[William Iorg]

This thread is of great interest to me. I enjoy small-game cartridges and small-game loads for larger caliber cartridges. The interest in fillers surprised me.
For several Months now I have been working with Greg Mushials low velocity "Convective ignition" loads in the .30-30 and .30-30 Improved.
I have been favorably impressed with my results. I began working with Greg's data by tying to duplicate his loads for Alliant Unique, Hodgdon/IMR 4227 and Accurate Arms No. 2. Of these four powders A.A. No. 2 proved the most uniform and accurate across the board.
I have finally acquired a pound of Hodgdon Titewad to compare with Alliant Bullseye. This weekend to wind blew 25+ mph so I shot at 50 yards. The high winds caused trouble with my chronograph. I had to use sandbags on the stands to prevent the chronograph from blowing over. The shooting results were very satisfying.
I mounted a 6-24X target scope on my Marlin 336 .30-30 Improved for this less than scientific test. I used the Lyman 311291 170 grain round nose bullet as cast (.300" nose and .309" bands) and tumble lubed them with Lee liquid Alox. I did not apply a gas check. The bullets were seated to the crimp groove but were not crimped. I used Winchester large rifle primers. 5.0 gr. of Titewad gave me 1" to 1.25" groups at 50 yds. Moving up to 6.0 gr. of Titewad gave me shotgun patterns that exceed 6". 7.0 gr. of Titewad shot into one hole that is about .50 caliber. This 7.0-gr. load chronographed 1,166 fps with an E of 9 fps and a SD of 3 fps.
Switching to 4.5 gr. Alliant Bullseye again produced a one-hole group of about .50 caliber at 50 yards. This 4.5 grain Bullseye load chronographed at 917 fps with an E of 25 fps and a SD of 11 fps. An increase to 5.5 grains of Bullseye gave the same one hole group at 1,043 fps with an E of 20 fps and a Sd of 7 fps. Increasing the charge to 6.5 grains of Bullseye opened the groups to two inches. The 6.5-grain load gave 1,144 fps with an E of 19 fps and a SD of 8 fps.

My results with the standard .30-30 in the 16" Winchester Trapper gave similar results. The high winds were causing problems with the chronograph by then but the best load was 5.0 gr. of Hodgdon Titewad for 948 fps with an E of 12 fps and a SD of 6 fps. This shot a 3/4" group at fifty yards. This is good shooting for this rifle -and the shooter! The same load fired from a 10" TC Contender gave 877 fps. with an E of 3 fps and a Sd of 2 fps. With open sights my groups were not quite so small!

I you are looking for a load to practice your bench technique with a lever action rifle these will certainly test your skill. Any problems with trigger control, recoil management, or canting will be magnified in a very visible manner! Take a look at Greg's Web Site and see if there is not something there for you.

http://www.gmdr.com/

 

[kdub]

Interesting home test, William -

Tell me - you mentioned the comments on fillers at the beginning of your post. Did you use any kind of fillers on these tested loads?

Were you able to acertain the BHN of your bullets?

With the use of Lee Alox lube, did you notice any leading problems in your rifles at these comparative low velocity rounds?

Does your Marlin 30-30 have Microgroove or the Ballard rifling?

Thanks for the above information. Sounds like you had a great time, in spite of the heavy crosswinds. Ain't it fun when you have to stake/weigh the chrono's down to keep from being blown over?!

 

[William Iorg]

Kdub

I did not use fillers. Greg has been trying to educate me but i am a slow learner! With the medium burn pistol powders such as Unique a filler can improve results. with the faster powders fillers are not necassary. I should have mentioned that I carried the ammunition in zip loc bags and no effort was made to orient the powder charge. I just picked them up and stuffed them in the chamber.

18 BHN by my Lee tester.

There was no evidence of leading in any of the three guns. The Marlin's microgroove rifling is pretty smooth. This rifle has been shot a lot. The Winchesterv Trapper came to me very smooth. The 10" TC barrel required a lot of break in. It is smooth now. none of these barrels have been lapped.

I have been slow and reluctant to come around to these fast powder loads. My father has used Bullseye in the .45-70 without fillers for many years. He claims there is no better way to perfect your off-hand work than light loads.

My bullets are .309" on the bands. Greg is using Oregon Trail bullets which are sized .309".

One thing about West Texas, if you dont shoot in the wind you dont shoot!

 

[kdub]

Tell me about the wind, William - !

I was born in Hobbs, NM and grew up there, with some time in Odessa!

 

[William Iorg]

I'm getting off topic here but i never dreamed I would live East of the Pecos.... i thought there were dragons out here in the wild country. I am from Corrales. I went to collage at ENMUR in Roswell, Lived on Portales peanuts!