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The main reason is that this person is going to school to be a state trooper and semi's are standard issue so I think it make sense to learn on one.
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I have had a Neos since they came out and I'm not real thrilled with it. I get "stovepipes" every other mag
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Ruger MKIII, Ruger 22/45, Browning Buckmark. There are also several of the major pistol makers now that offer 22lr pistols that are a clone of one of their original models. Thus, if he knows what pistol he will be issued he may be able to get a weapon that is exactly the same specs as far a size and function only in a 22 instead of the original chambering such as 9mm, 40, or 45acp. Another option would be to actually buy the pistol he will be carrying and get a 22lr conversion to go with it. He could learn on the 22 and once he gets comfortable he could put the larger caliber barrel and slide on it.
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363 Posts
Thats a very good point, and I actually thought about that a few hours ago as well. Most departments are issued Glocks that i'm aware of. Glock does not make a .22 but they do have a .22 conversion. but by the time you do all that your getting into the $800 dollar ranges. Wonder whats out there in a .22 that would have similar grip angle and controls as a Glock?
.22 pistol
Pardon me, but this person is obviosly an adult or **** close to it and can probably learn to handle a Glock in any caliber real easily and quickly. Glocks are the easiest of all weapons to learn on. Why mess with a .22 and spend time and money now when he or she(is it because it is a female) can get started on a full sized pistol of a higher caliber and get a REAL head start on the firearms training portion of the academy. More people delude themselves into thinking that learning gunhandling and marksmanship on a .22 gun will let them transition into a full sizsd weapon quickly and easily.....In the case of a Glock(if this is what your person is to be issued at the Academy)....all this .22 pre-training is a total waste their effort and time. This person of yours will be just fine jumping right into a Glock in whatever caliber he or she will be issued. I have trained hundreds of students (M&F) who had no or very little firearms training and put them right into a Glock...they all did fine and thanked me for doing so and saving them untold hours of duplication and a ton of money......The Glock is a "Walk in the Park" to learn on...... Good Luck with whatever road you take.....
Pardon me, but this person is obviosly an adult or **** close to it and can probably learn to handle a Glock in any caliber real easily and quickly. Glocks are the easiest of all weapons to learn on. Why mess with a .22 and spend time and money now when he or she(is it because it is a female) can get started on a full sized pistol of a higher caliber and get a REAL head start on the firearms training portion of the academy. More people delude themselves into thinking that learning gunhandling and marksmanship on a .22 gun will let them transition into a full sizsd weapon quickly and easily.....In the case of a Glock(if this is what your person is to be issued at the Academy)....all this .22 pre-training is a total waste their effort and time. This person of yours will be just fine jumping right into a Glock in whatever caliber he or she will be issued. I have trained hundreds of students (M&F) who had no or very little firearms training and put them right into a Glock...they all did fine and thanked me for doing so and saving them untold hours of duplication and a ton of money......The Glock is a "Walk in the Park" to learn on...... Good Luck with whatever road you take.....
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771 Posts
Glock...Glock...Glock'''firearms designed to kill people", that should their logo! This guy is trying to get advice on a training firearm in preparation for State Trooper training. A high quality revolver or semi auto in .22 will teach basic firearm skills, AND teach a respect for firearms, at a much lower price!(as in recoil and price$). In teaching how to shoot firearms, hand-eye-coordination is very important...getting used to shooting(trigger-time) is important...but RESPECT is paramount.
Ruger MK III, Browning Buchmark, Beretta Neos...doesn't matter...it's the teacher. Please teach accuracy, respect for the weapon, and above all, respect for the power you hold in your hand.
Three cheers for the person wanting to be a State Trooper, my hat is off.
I live in N.E. Okla., anything I can do, I will.
Terry
Ruger MK III, Browning Buchmark, Beretta Neos...doesn't matter...it's the teacher. Please teach accuracy, respect for the weapon, and above all, respect for the power you hold in your hand.
Three cheers for the person wanting to be a State Trooper, my hat is off.
I live in N.E. Okla., anything I can do, I will.
Terry
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36,710 Posts
I can't disagree enough with the statement that training with a .22 is a waste of time. I have never, repeat never, seen a beginning shooter start with a centerfire that did not end up with a pretty bad flinch. Myself included. Well I can remember putting my SECOND .44 mag round, ever, into a puddle about 10 feet in front of me 
Why train bad habits from the start? Coaches work on fundamentals first in every other sport requiring the least bit of physical coordination. Firearms surely aren't the one single exception where that's important in this world.
Disagree that a Glock is the easiest thing to learn on. In fact, I think the are one of the more difficult things to learn to really shoot well. Easy to learn to handle, yes. Easy to pull the trigger fast on, yes. Easy to shoot and hit what you are aiming at? Not if it's very far away. The only guns that are harder to shoot have worse triggers, and / or are lighter. The ergonomics of a Glock are OK but not necessarily great, especially if you have one of the double-stack guns and small to medium hands.
Again, how a Glock is immune to the ordinary suggestions for training new shooters, I don't know. You don't start a beginning rifle shooter on a .300 Win Mag or a beginning skeet shooter on 3.5" 12ga loads, do you?
Suspect that the only reason that training new LEOs could be considered a 'success' in starting a new shooter with a centerfire is that their qualification targets really aren't terribly demanding, in the grand scheme of things. Shoot reasonably quickly at something reasonably close. But qualifying on that sort of paradigm does not make one a handgunner, either.
.22 and practice, practice, practice some more. In the end I think it will hardly matter what brand so find something used that fits the hand reasonably well. Sight picture and trigger control are fundamentals that translate to anything.
And then buy a lot of ammo.
Why train bad habits from the start? Coaches work on fundamentals first in every other sport requiring the least bit of physical coordination. Firearms surely aren't the one single exception where that's important in this world.
Disagree that a Glock is the easiest thing to learn on. In fact, I think the are one of the more difficult things to learn to really shoot well. Easy to learn to handle, yes. Easy to pull the trigger fast on, yes. Easy to shoot and hit what you are aiming at? Not if it's very far away. The only guns that are harder to shoot have worse triggers, and / or are lighter. The ergonomics of a Glock are OK but not necessarily great, especially if you have one of the double-stack guns and small to medium hands.
Again, how a Glock is immune to the ordinary suggestions for training new shooters, I don't know. You don't start a beginning rifle shooter on a .300 Win Mag or a beginning skeet shooter on 3.5" 12ga loads, do you?
Suspect that the only reason that training new LEOs could be considered a 'success' in starting a new shooter with a centerfire is that their qualification targets really aren't terribly demanding, in the grand scheme of things. Shoot reasonably quickly at something reasonably close. But qualifying on that sort of paradigm does not make one a handgunner, either.
.22 and practice, practice, practice some more. In the end I think it will hardly matter what brand so find something used that fits the hand reasonably well. Sight picture and trigger control are fundamentals that translate to anything.
And then buy a lot of ammo.
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6,267 Posts
I too agree that a good 22 revolver or pistol is the way to go for training. One thing about a 22 handgun is the ammo is much cheaper than a centerfire gun. He will be able to practice a lot more with a 22 for a lot less money. I was a trooper for 22 years and a reserve deputy for the last 17 and am required to qualify each year. I shoot my 22 handguns much more than I do my centerfire. Practice is practice, no matter what the caliber is.
Browning Buckmark, the only 22auto I've shot that was more accurate is a Colt Match Target, and the Buckmark was very, very close. I own them both and have shot them a lot. The Colt is pretty much retired to the safe now, it was my Dads, bought used in 1950. Family heirloom kinda thing. It's a nice piece.
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816 Posts
I'm a firearms instructor myself, and totally agree a 22lr is a good way to teach someone the basics of shooting a handgun. I think using a 22 conversion for the duty gun the person is going to be expected to carry everyday is even better than using just any old 22. That way the person gets use to all the controls on the weapon and the feel of the trigger, the mag release, the look of the sight picture, etc. Anyone who says using a 22 to learn on is a waste of time just doesn't get it, IMHO. Just because the person in an adult doesn't mean that they are ready to shoot a larger caliber handgun. Heck, I've shot everything up to and including a 500 S&W but I still really enjoy shooting my 22's and having fun is half the battle. I've seen some brand new shooters (who were adults by the way) that were scared to death pulling the trigger on a handgun for the first time. Using a 22 is a mild way to introduce them to shooting. Then, once they are proficient with it, which may not take long at all, you can put a bigger caliber in their hand and they won't be so nervous about it.
I would go with a .22LR Ruger Mark III if buying new. Even the OEM magazines are fairly cheap and you will still have accessories being made for them 10 years from them, probably. My used Mark I (once I took it apart) from 1978 still fires nicely.
One thing I like about the Mark series is it is easy to rack the slide properly. One thing I have noticed is people rack the slides improperly on many semi-autos because they can't grip it.
I tell you, one of my sweetest guns has to be the revolver, .22LR Ruger Single Six in Stainless Steel. It looks nice, it feels nice to grip, it fires nice. Hardly any recoil. Plus, it cleans nice. Being SA probably not the best gun to dump 19 rounds on a missed target. I got mine used without the extra .22 magnum cyl.
I don't regret my Ruger 944/.40 being my first handgun because it is meant strictly for killing someone that might want to kill me. But, if I had to pick a 1st gun to learn proper technique and to practice with for fun and distance, it would have been a Ruger Single Six followed by a Mark series.
When I shot the Ruger .44 magnum Super Blackhawk 7.5" ? the 1st time I grouped them far better and at a greater distance then the semi-auto 4", I was surprised how little recoil and muzzle travel there was with the revolver. It (230 gr hp) felt less harsh then then the semi-auto (180 gr fmj).
Now, I know it is not all that, but, my Daisy semi-auto BB gun is excellent to practice with both with the iron and red dot sights. The best thing is it is cheap and can be done indoors. At 21+ feet I can empty the magazine all within 2" counting the flyers.
The reason I practice with it and teach my kids with it is I figure if I can't hit a 1" target at 21 feet with a BB gun, my chances of doing it with a real gun decrease the more I move up in caliper.
> He's a lefty if that matters
For a handgun, it does not matter with most modern guns since they have ambi controls and releases and many stances are left/right neutral. Though, on a shotgun I would probably want a lefty for a lefty.
One thing I like about the Mark series is it is easy to rack the slide properly. One thing I have noticed is people rack the slides improperly on many semi-autos because they can't grip it.
I tell you, one of my sweetest guns has to be the revolver, .22LR Ruger Single Six in Stainless Steel. It looks nice, it feels nice to grip, it fires nice. Hardly any recoil. Plus, it cleans nice. Being SA probably not the best gun to dump 19 rounds on a missed target. I got mine used without the extra .22 magnum cyl.
I don't regret my Ruger 944/.40 being my first handgun because it is meant strictly for killing someone that might want to kill me. But, if I had to pick a 1st gun to learn proper technique and to practice with for fun and distance, it would have been a Ruger Single Six followed by a Mark series.
When I shot the Ruger .44 magnum Super Blackhawk 7.5" ? the 1st time I grouped them far better and at a greater distance then the semi-auto 4", I was surprised how little recoil and muzzle travel there was with the revolver. It (230 gr hp) felt less harsh then then the semi-auto (180 gr fmj).
Now, I know it is not all that, but, my Daisy semi-auto BB gun is excellent to practice with both with the iron and red dot sights. The best thing is it is cheap and can be done indoors. At 21+ feet I can empty the magazine all within 2" counting the flyers.
The reason I practice with it and teach my kids with it is I figure if I can't hit a 1" target at 21 feet with a BB gun, my chances of doing it with a real gun decrease the more I move up in caliper.
> He's a lefty if that matters
For a handgun, it does not matter with most modern guns since they have ambi controls and releases and many stances are left/right neutral. Though, on a shotgun I would probably want a lefty for a lefty.
I have a bunch of centerfire pistols and revolvers (all handguns), but always return to my 22's for pure FUN and to sharpen my basic fundamentals. If your group starts to open up, grab your K-22 or Buckmark and have all the fun and enjoyment you can handle at maybe 5 to 10 cents a round. ALWAYS but quality and stay away from plastic guns.
I have a bunch of centerfire pistols and revolvers (all handguns), but always return to my 22's for pure FUN and to sharpen my basic fundamentals. If your group starts to open up, grab your K-22 or Buckmark and have all the fun and enjoyment you can handle at maybe 5 to 10 cents a round. ALWAYS but quality and stay away from plastic guns.
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