James, Thats a great reply. Thats why I asked the original question in the first place. I`m still not sure if I`ve ever received an answer to it. I feel like I`m stuck in the middle, with nowhere to go with this.I too am a handgun hunter, Ive taken elk and deer with a 44 magnum. I think I`ll just start at the loads suggested by Cast Performance and work up a little bit. I don`t want a hot load. Thanks,
handgun cartridges
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Don,
James and everyone else have given you a lot of information. I can see how you may feel like your original question hasn't been answered. If you look carefully, the answer is there, but maybe not as plain and clear-cut as you had hoped.
You can go with the Cast Performance starting loads for those bullets. They won't be "hot", but they won't be pushovers either. Kelly Brost, the owner of Cast Performance, is an easy person to talk to. Call him up if you want to and tell him what you are looking to do with his bullets. He's a handloader, like the rest of us, and will point you in the right direction.
I'm not a big fan of W296/H110 powder. It has its uses, but I've always been nervous about finding the right starting point, due to the warning not to reduce too far. Lately I've been using 2400 and H4227 powders. I don't have to worry so much about the starting point, and I can work the load up to within 500 fps of what W296/H110 will give. That's close enough for me.
Cast Performance shows starting loads for H4227 on many of its bullets, but I see that is not the case with the 44 cal. If it were me, and I was going with H4227, I would start at 2.0gr below the W296 loads listed; 17.0gr for the 320 and 17.5gr for the 300. That should be plenty mild, and give you lots of room to grow.
Good luck.
James and everyone else have given you a lot of information. I can see how you may feel like your original question hasn't been answered. If you look carefully, the answer is there, but maybe not as plain and clear-cut as you had hoped.
You can go with the Cast Performance starting loads for those bullets. They won't be "hot", but they won't be pushovers either. Kelly Brost, the owner of Cast Performance, is an easy person to talk to. Call him up if you want to and tell him what you are looking to do with his bullets. He's a handloader, like the rest of us, and will point you in the right direction.
I'm not a big fan of W296/H110 powder. It has its uses, but I've always been nervous about finding the right starting point, due to the warning not to reduce too far. Lately I've been using 2400 and H4227 powders. I don't have to worry so much about the starting point, and I can work the load up to within 500 fps of what W296/H110 will give. That's close enough for me.
Cast Performance shows starting loads for H4227 on many of its bullets, but I see that is not the case with the 44 cal. If it were me, and I was going with H4227, I would start at 2.0gr below the W296 loads listed; 17.0gr for the 320 and 17.5gr for the 300. That should be plenty mild, and give you lots of room to grow.
Good luck.
Don44,
I'm sure you have checked the LoadSwap, but in cease you have not, the 320gr. Cast Performance bullet was tested with 21gr. of H110 for a 1268 fps result. No additional comments about the test were available.
To see how we compare, I'll load some 320gr. WFN GC bullets, starting at the 20.0 you asked about and see with I get and will let you know. The weather is pretty rainy here in Ioway, but will certainly know by the end of the week. I'll check the loads at 25yds and 50yds also. I'll use a SBH 7 1/2" barrel and 2X7 Burris -- only way I'll see the 50yd. target
Dan
I'm sure you have checked the LoadSwap, but in cease you have not, the 320gr. Cast Performance bullet was tested with 21gr. of H110 for a 1268 fps result. No additional comments about the test were available.
To see how we compare, I'll load some 320gr. WFN GC bullets, starting at the 20.0 you asked about and see with I get and will let you know. The weather is pretty rainy here in Ioway, but will certainly know by the end of the week. I'll check the loads at 25yds and 50yds also. I'll use a SBH 7 1/2" barrel and 2X7 Burris -- only way I'll see the 50yd. target
Dan
Don,
Here are this morning's results with the CP 320gr. WFN GC.
.44mag SBH, 7 1/2" barrel with T'*** mount and 2X7 Burris scope. CCI 350 primer, H110 powder, Starline brass, new and trimmed to 1.274" (forgot to measure OAL). Load on a Dillon 550b press with first and last powder load for each weight measured on a Dillon digital scale.
Since CP identifies 19.0gr. as the starting load for this bullet, I began at that level. I shot 10 rounds for velocity measurements and 10 rounds (two 5-shot groups) for accuracy at 25yds. Apologize for not making it to the 50yd. range but ran into time conflicts (wife said we're eating out for lunch).
Gr. Avg. Vel. ES SD Accuracy
19.0 1199 27 10.07 best 5=1.2" best 4=1.2"
19.5 1243 37 15.26 best 5=1.4" best 4= .83"
20.0 1274 52 20.80 best 5=1.1" best 4= .86"
20.5 1306 30 10.83 best 5=1.0" best 4= .60"
While the recoil doesn't approach the .454 level, this heavier bullet does make it jump, so don't count on seeing where you hit for a couple seconds. None of the loads had an ES or SD that said, "I'm the best", but the accuracy was respectable.
Hope this helps,
Dan
Here are this morning's results with the CP 320gr. WFN GC.
.44mag SBH, 7 1/2" barrel with T'*** mount and 2X7 Burris scope. CCI 350 primer, H110 powder, Starline brass, new and trimmed to 1.274" (forgot to measure OAL). Load on a Dillon 550b press with first and last powder load for each weight measured on a Dillon digital scale.
Since CP identifies 19.0gr. as the starting load for this bullet, I began at that level. I shot 10 rounds for velocity measurements and 10 rounds (two 5-shot groups) for accuracy at 25yds. Apologize for not making it to the 50yd. range but ran into time conflicts (wife said we're eating out for lunch).
Gr. Avg. Vel. ES SD Accuracy
19.0 1199 27 10.07 best 5=1.2" best 4=1.2"
19.5 1243 37 15.26 best 5=1.4" best 4= .83"
20.0 1274 52 20.80 best 5=1.1" best 4= .86"
20.5 1306 30 10.83 best 5=1.0" best 4= .60"
While the recoil doesn't approach the .454 level, this heavier bullet does make it jump, so don't count on seeing where you hit for a couple seconds. None of the loads had an ES or SD that said, "I'm the best", but the accuracy was respectable.
Hope this helps,
Dan
Don,
I did want to comment on something I'm sure you will also notice. In one of my recent responses, I said, "I'm sure you have checked the LoadSwap, but in case you have not, the 320gr. Cast Performance bullet was tested with 21gr. of H110 for a 1268 fps result".
I also commented that there was no additional data with that LoadSwap listing -- I was incorrect, and here is the additional data, "taurus M44 8 3/8" ported and plus P rated. recoil is strong but not overwhelming--- at 22.0g vel. is 1325, at 23.0g vel. is 1375 and pres. is high, use the 23.0g load sparringly."
The reason I comment on these updates is that it's interesting that the gentleman using the Taurus and his lot of H110 came up with relatively different results than I did.
His 21.0grs. gave him 1268 fps and my 20.0grs. gave me 1274 fps. His 22.0grs. gave him 1325 and my 20.5grs. gave me 1306! Just another example of why our responses to your question were not specific to "this weight gives you this velocity" or "this weight is always safe". I sincerely apologize if it sounds like a speech or lecture, I'm sure you're much more experienced than I, but it helps explain why we structured our responses as we did.
Look forward to hearing about you successful hunting exploits.
Dan
(Edited by DOK at 1:27 pm on Sep. 20, 2001)
I did want to comment on something I'm sure you will also notice. In one of my recent responses, I said, "I'm sure you have checked the LoadSwap, but in case you have not, the 320gr. Cast Performance bullet was tested with 21gr. of H110 for a 1268 fps result".
I also commented that there was no additional data with that LoadSwap listing -- I was incorrect, and here is the additional data, "taurus M44 8 3/8" ported and plus P rated. recoil is strong but not overwhelming--- at 22.0g vel. is 1325, at 23.0g vel. is 1375 and pres. is high, use the 23.0g load sparringly."
The reason I comment on these updates is that it's interesting that the gentleman using the Taurus and his lot of H110 came up with relatively different results than I did.
His 21.0grs. gave him 1268 fps and my 20.0grs. gave me 1274 fps. His 22.0grs. gave him 1325 and my 20.5grs. gave me 1306! Just another example of why our responses to your question were not specific to "this weight gives you this velocity" or "this weight is always safe". I sincerely apologize if it sounds like a speech or lecture, I'm sure you're much more experienced than I, but it helps explain why we structured our responses as we did.
Look forward to hearing about you successful hunting exploits.
Dan
(Edited by DOK at 1:27 pm on Sep. 20, 2001)
DOK, a great post! Very detailed, very informative, very much to the point and very helpful. I`m sure that took up quite a bit of your time, and I`d just like you to know how much I appreciate that.It is strange to see how different loads and guns can be a law unto themselves so to speak. I`ve had that happen before trying to work up loads, etc. I`ll get back to everyone when I get this all set and done. Thanks again and hope all is well with you. Don
(Edited by don44 at 6:49 pm on Sep. 20, 2001)
(Edited by don44 at 6:49 pm on Sep. 20, 2001)
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2,214 Posts
DOK, I was rather surprised to see that velocity variations did not decrease noticeably as charge weights increased. That is what common knowledge about H110 would have us expect. I guess we have learned several good lessons here. Thanks for taking the time to test the loads and post your findings! ID
IDShooter,
I would agree, thought the velocity increase would be more dynamic. But a separate test (see "H108" post in Handloading Procedures forum), albeit on a different weight bullet, produced similiar results. However, the two tests produced a surprise I didn't expect and quite frankly, if I ever get time, will recheck. Be darned if the 320gr. bullet didn't get higher velocity than the 272gr. bullet with the same weight of H110 (from the same can)! Might be an expected result for some foks, but a surprise to me.
320gr. WFN GC
20.0gr. 1274 fps, ES 52, SD 20.80
20.5gr. 1306 fps, ES 30, SD 10.83
272gr. SWC GC
20.0gr. 1238 fps, ES 72, SD 33.48,
20.5gr. 1256 fps, ES 33, SD 15.03
Dan
I would agree, thought the velocity increase would be more dynamic. But a separate test (see "H108" post in Handloading Procedures forum), albeit on a different weight bullet, produced similiar results. However, the two tests produced a surprise I didn't expect and quite frankly, if I ever get time, will recheck. Be darned if the 320gr. bullet didn't get higher velocity than the 272gr. bullet with the same weight of H110 (from the same can)! Might be an expected result for some foks, but a surprise to me.
320gr. WFN GC
20.0gr. 1274 fps, ES 52, SD 20.80
20.5gr. 1306 fps, ES 30, SD 10.83
272gr. SWC GC
20.0gr. 1238 fps, ES 72, SD 33.48,
20.5gr. 1256 fps, ES 33, SD 15.03
Dan
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32 Posts
OK, I agree on most of it, but...............
(Edited by GilaMonster at 6:37 pm on Oct. 16, 2001)
(Edited by GilaMonster at 6:37 pm on Oct. 16, 2001)
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32 Posts
I know that most of you agree on "not using maximum loads". In most cases I would certainly agree. 100% in fact! However, since we are discussing H110, I would like to mention that my Dan Wesson 44V shoots it's best at "what I consider Maximum" with this powder and heavy bullets. Now, this is a 10" bbl model with a scope and tests were carried out with the use of a rest. In a case such as this, I certainly have the use for the max load. Just my 2 cents worth.
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